Do you ever wonder about the controversies and dynamics behind the UFC’s drug testing program? Join us for an in-depth discussion as we get real about the UFC's recent split with USADA, potential changes to the UFC's drug testing policy, and how this major shift could impact the future of the sport.
Our conversation doesn't stop at drug testing. We also talk about some highly anticipated matches in UFC 294. Alexander Volkanovski's rematch with Islam Makachev and the immense pressure Kamaru Usman might be feeling against Khamzat Chimaev is covered!
As we wrap up, we draw our focus to current trends in UFC. Whether you're a hardcore MMA fan or a casual observer, this engaging conversation pulls back the curtain on the world of UFC. Tune in for an episode that is as unpredictable and thrilling as the sport itself!
Do you ever wonder about the controversies and dynamics behind the UFC’s drug testing program? Join us for an in-depth discussion as we get real about the UFC's recent split with USADA, potential changes to the UFC's drug testing policy, and how this major shift could impact the future of the sport.
Our conversation doesn't stop at drug testing. We also talk about some highly anticipated matches in UFC 294. Alexander Volkanovski's rematch with Islam Makachev and the immense pressure Kamaru Usman might be feeling against Khamzat Chimaev is covered!
As we wrap up, we draw our focus to current trends in UFC. Whether you're a hardcore MMA fan or a casual observer, this engaging conversation pulls back the curtain on the world of UFC. Tune in for an episode that is as unpredictable and thrilling as the sport itself!
This is a special presentation from UFC Fight Pass.
Speaker 2:Step into our world at UFCFightPasscom.
Speaker 1:Please welcome from the FITS Nation podcast, brendan Fitzgerald. Oh, if you want somebody with access to the fight game, look no further. I am standing here in my office, but already this morning I have been inside the locker room at the UFC Performance Institute with one, sean Strickland, the UFC middleweight champion. I'll tell you what he told me earlier today. And I also caught up with my good friend, jeff Novitsky, and, as you can imagine, it's been quite a week for the head of our drug testing program, currently with USADA, soon to be a bit different down the stretch, and we often have heard the phrase in various different arenas of the world follow the money. Right, follow the money. You will figure out what's going on, and that is certainly true in this case in regards to the UFC and USADA. But it's not just following the money that a lot of people think you should follow, and that would be in terms of Conor McGregor and his money making ability for the UFC. How about you follow the money for USADA and what actually runs their business? So we'll get into the fallout.
Speaker 1:If you'd like to join us, call or text 917-UFC-TALK. You can call in, you can give your thoughts and also there was some major news with UFC 294. You may have heard that the top of the card completely gets blown up and we have a new title fight for the 155 title. Islam Makachev Alexander Volkonovsky will rematch after they fought in Perth earlier this year in a very competitive fight. And the co-main event Hamzat Chimaev, kamaro Ussman at middleweight Kamaro Ussman's first middleweight fight in the UFC and Dana White saying that the winner of that fight will get a shot at the title being Sean Strickland. And for those of you calling me a company shill and just kind of echoing the statements blindly of the UFC this week because of the USADA situation, maybe I'll surprise you with what I think of the middleweight fight between Kamaro Ussman and Hamzat Chimaev producing the next title contender. Tj Desantis is running the board. Tj, will you pop up for me? I can't actually see you. Tj, are you on with me right now?
Speaker 2:I am. Let me press a button, oh thanks for pressing that button for me. There you go, so many buttons to press.
Speaker 1:All right, I feel so much better now. I was flying blind a little bit there, tj. I was like maybe I'll just have to hear you and not see you today, but we're on the money, okay. So, tj, I'm going to get into the UFC and USADA thing. I want to get your quick thoughts on. When the news broke this week and you started seeing like the USADA statement and whatever, what did you think as a long time member of the MMA Hardcore Militia, what did you think?
Speaker 2:Man, I'm in a militia. That makes me sad, I just mean.
Speaker 1:When it comes to hardcore MMA fans that have been following the sport for decades, you are among them. Not everybody can boast that.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that I don't know if I'm in the minority, if I'm in the majority, but honestly, like I leave those things up to you know the powers that be Dana White in company. For me, I think every promoter needs to follow the rules that they're beholden to by the athletic commission in the jurisdiction in which they promote. And beyond that I don't really care too much. I think it was admirable for the UFC to bring in USADA back in 2015. But the bottom line is this USADA is never going to give you something that you didn't have. It's only going to take away. So from a fight fans perspective, you know USADA can sometimes be a problem. It takes away a potential main event. It's sidelines and athlete that you otherwise would maybe want to see if something goes amiss. But I mean, you know people want to play a fair. You know playing field. I guess I want that as well. But at the end of the day, as long as you're doing with the athletic commission wants you to do, I don't much care.
Speaker 1:So here's the thing, TJ, that a lot of people got wrong Just because we're not going with USADA doesn't mean we're not going to do drug testing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you have to. The commission ensures that.
Speaker 1:Yes, and now more and more athletic commissions are saying you now not only need in competition drug testing, you need out of competition drug testing. That's when they can kind of show up and drug test you at any point, to kind of bring it to a more level ground. That's certainly the case in Nevada.
Speaker 2:The issue with the out of competition drug testing is it gets a little bit murky if you're not subject to someone like USADA Because, say, I fight for the UFC and you know I've got a fight coming up in Tennessee or something like that, yes, does Tennessee have the right to come to my house in, you know, sacramento? Well, that's the thing.
Speaker 1:So they don't run the tests Right. They just say you have to have out of competition testing. That's up to you how you administer it, and USADA is one of those that could. All right, I want to get into what happened with USADA, tj, and you know, like I said, follow the money and, as I said at the top, I have some pretty inside access to people, to major decision makers in the UFC world. Ok, this morning Jeff Novitsky is in the apex. I knew he was going to be there because he's got to talk to the fighters now because what USADA did by their fly by the seat of their pants statement that came across as like an angry Email to you, tj. You ever write an angry email and then, like you're like I shouldn't send this, I'll delete it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I'm very happy that the iPhone now comes with a unsend feature, at least when it comes to certain text messages and things like that. Right, all right.
Speaker 1:So Tiger and the crew over at USADA wrote an angry email and they hit send Right and they should have hit unsend but they didn't, because now they're going to get MF'd by Dana for like the next 10 years.
Speaker 2:Only 10 years.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's you know, and it's like they hijacked the announcement so that they could come across looking good and looking holier than now and we're up on the high mountaintop looking down. The UFC is a money making business and they just want what's best for Conor McGregor. That's what they did, right, and it took like 18 hours until the powers that be for the UFC Jeff Novitsky, hunter Campbell come out and tell the actual story of what happened. And so Jeff Novitsky tells me today and I was saying this because I kind of saw it unfolding in real time and I have access to people who kind of knew what was going on after USADA releases that statement. I was saying if you go on USADA's website and go under their FAQs, one of the frequently asked questions of USADA is do you control the drug testing situation for major American sports leagues, ncaa, college athletes, the NFL, the NHL, mlb, the NBA, organizations like that and USADA says generally not, but we do handle the program for the UFC. So it's like in their first sentence they were very proud. It was very beneficial for USADA to be the drug testing program of the UFC because, despite the fact that their logo is red, white and blue and it has a star and has some stripes and there's US in it. They do not have any affiliation with the US government. It seems like it's this big official government program and it is not just like other companies that use US in their title. Just like the Federal Reserve is not federal, it doesn't have reserves. There's companies that will kind of they come off as more official than they are Right. Usada is not. That. Usada gets revenue from the different things that they do. Drug testing for the UFC was their biggest client and will continue to be their biggest client until the end of 2023.
Speaker 1:I found out today that USADA, by losing the UFC deal, is losing 25% of their revenue. 25% of their company revenue is out the window because on Monday, when Hunter Campbell told Travis Tigert that we are no longer going to be using USADA at the end of our contract 25% of their revenue out the window USADA was not happy. They expected to sign another deal which was like a four or five year deal is how they operate and that would have been a whole bunch of cash and it would have been a whole bunch of good press and spots on a billboard and every time we, ironically enough, give out a 50 times USADA tested jacket, like we did today with Darren Elkins in that case of timing. So that leaves. So now you got to wonder how USADA is going to make up that business or run their business differently, because a quarter of their revenue is just gone out the window. They also very proudly in their headquarters have a big UFC mural on their wall, like, right in their main office area headquarters in Colorado Springs is a big UFC mural on the wall.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they all this to say. Usada had way more to lose by the UFC ending their relationship with USADA than the UFC has to lose based on USADA. Not as they say, the situation is untenable because of the handling of Conor McGregor. That is like false, not true. They're breaking up with us publicly before the news came out that we actually decided to not renew the contract and then the information comes out that we are going a different path. And oh, by the way, drug free sport Handles the drug testing for the NFL, for, I believe, major league baseball, other major organizations. So we are still going to have a policy in place of drug testing and it's probably it's going to be more tailored to Athletes because they know how it operates and also it's going to be more tailored to UFC athletes and how they like to do it.
Speaker 1:Stories of USADA Randomly drug testing Paulo Costa, like in Salt Lake City, like I forget, did they wake him up early or it was like late, it was while he was cutting weight, the drug testing while he was cutting weight.
Speaker 1:And then also there are stories of guy fighting in a main event which happens at around midnight, depending on the TV market, and they would drug test him the week before at six in the morning, wake him up and this guy's trying to get his body clock right so he can fire physically at the right time at midnight In ten days after cutting weight and all that other stuff. Right, you have to ask why, like what does it matter that he drug test clean at six in the morning? Get him at noon, what are you doing right? And so that is going to be some of the major differences that make it still a level playing field, still a drug testing program that's comprehensive, that is transparent, that is above board, but not by these kind of rules and just like the ignorance of USADA drug testers as far as who they are testing for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean again, brendan, that's my sort of ideology on this is people that are sort of saying, oh, the UFC is trying to end this relationship. On behalf of Conor McGregor, you know, yeah, but the bottom line is the UFC never had to implement USADA testing to begin with, like it was a decision that they made in. You know, it's a decision that again, is only going to cause more problems than it's going to necessarily help the bottom line. I mean, we've seen athletes fall out a couple of days before you know, a main event and card shuffle, and the last thing Sean Shelby or Mick Maynard ever want to do is try to, you know, find a replacement, and they've been having to find a lot of replacements lately, not related to, yeah, you saw the test.
Speaker 2:But you know, the bottom line is, I personally don't think that there is any sort of you know shame on the UFC for deciding to go a different direction because, again, they never needed to go this direction to begin with. Look at all the other MMA promotions out there. They're not doing it, they're not going out there and sort of you know leading the way there and it's unfortunate that it's played out this way. But I mean the way that you describe that office in Colorado and the money that you saw that has you know, sort of been relying on. Yes, see, it seems like for you saw the, you know, governing the UFC athletes and testing them is a big part of their identity.
Speaker 1:So huge part of their identity. They're very proud of it. As I said, they trotted out on their website. They have the mural on the wall and I don't know what that mural looks like today. It is some red marker on it or something like that, or somebody took a paint roller to it. But I'm yeah, like so. And then, listen, connor McGregor makes the US C money. Right, plain and simple. Let's acknowledge that. And then people would say the other day On X, it's a. You gotta admit it looks bad because of the McGregor situation and the timing of all this. And if you just go one level further, you go. Yeah, that's why they did it. Then they found out on Monday and they said, well, and that's why Hunter saying he's ashamed at how they use Connor McGregor as a media vehicle, as he termed it, because, yes, the timing of it is not good. If Connor had already fought after being in the program six months, then this just all looks bad on.
Speaker 1:you saw, right they're trying to salvage whatever they can by sending out that press release and kind of like Like you know, sandbag in the US C, by, instead of letting the US C announce our new drug program, which we're going to do, I believe, in December. I think they had a Hyper speed and they obviously had to dress what happened this week, but so so acknowledging acknowledging that Connor McGregor makes the US C money yes, indeed, john Jones makes us more money than fighters on the prelims. Connor McGregor, mcgregor makes us more money than any other athlete has in US C history. That is true. What we have proven, though, is that we can thrive without Connor McGregor. He hasn't exactly been a regular competitor in the octagon, certainly since the ESPN deal started right what he fought? Cowboy Seroni in 2020, early 2020.
Speaker 1:And then he fought poor a twice yep so since the ESPN deal started at the beginning of 2019. So at 1920, 21, 22, 23 we're like five years in he's fought three times. We can survive and thrive and grow without Connor McGregor. Can you saw the Thrive and grow without a quarter of their revenue from the US C? That's the question they have to ask themselves and that's why they tried to get out in front of it and that's why it's very dangerous that they did this to somebody like Dana White in the US C who, like well, dana, will make no mistake. Like Dana will let the world know what he thinks of your organization. If you do something behind the scenes and kind of snakey like this, that's what it is, and I'm not this type of guy, tj, you know me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, the thing that is also concerning for me for you saw, that is sort of you know, make this proclamation and go out, you know, kind of go into business for themselves is if they want to secure a relationship like this with either the US C down the road or someone else in the future. Like it is this what happens when things go south and maybe you don't necessarily get along or you're not going to resign a deal, because the last thing you ever want to do, even if you don't get along With a former, you know business partner, is go out there in the public spotlight and rip them apart, because to me, if I'm going to potentially do business with you, I'm just going all right. So if I give you an answer, you don't necessarily like you're going to start ripping me in the public spotlight like, yeah, I don't know if I want to be associated with that.
Speaker 1:So you know who just started a deal with. You saw it recently.
Speaker 2:Who's that?
Speaker 1:The PFL, the PFL Okay, so they got to be looking at this like, oh, wish we could maybe rethink that. Because they I, jeff Novitsky told me PFL just started a deal with you saw that. And I was like, well, how long is it? And he's just like, oh, they usually operate on four or five year contracts. And he's just like they're looking at us now and how you, you saw that Release that you know press release, it's false. They like they just utterly came out and told a lie, like I heard one of. I heard Donna, who's side by side with Jeff Novitsky, in terms of our drug testing program, and she just goes. Travis, tiger lied, he just lied, he sent out that press release and it lied and they just sent it out. And that's why the UFC said they want a retraction and they might have some legal issue to deal with.
Speaker 1:And the other thing that complicates and I feel bad about this is Jeff. I asked Jeff Novitsky and Tiger have they've worked together for 22 years? Right, yeah, that he, they go back till when Jeff was with the Treasury Department, yep, and Travis was with you saw that. And they were taken down. Victor Conti, which was Barry Bonds, and hit the drug scandal. With that, obviously, lance Armstrong was a high profile case. So he said he's known Travis Tiger for 22 years and I was like so was it like a professional thing or like were you like friends? And he's like yeah, it's like we're friends for a long time and then, like this happens this week and so I feel bad about that. But you know, it's certainly a complicated process. When something ends it's, it's not like it has to be easy, but you saw, it did not help themselves.
Speaker 2:I got a text or first text of the day this from the 209. Maybe it's someone from Stockton.
Speaker 1:Oh, here we go, here we go.
Speaker 2:What about Jeff Novitsky? I thought he worked for you. Saw that. Is he no longer with you? Saw that. And now working with the UFC? I think that's the biggest misconception. Right yeah, he's the intermediary between you. Saw that in the UFC he doesn't. He's not an employee of you. Saw that.
Speaker 1:Jeff Novitsky is a staff employee of the UFC, right Staff employee of the UFC and like yeah, so if you have any questions that you want to clear up, I'm pretty well versed in how it works. Text in 917 UFC talk or call us. So Jeff Novitsky was hired by the UFC to put in place a drug testing program that will be comprehensive, transparent, above board, high integrity, all of that stuff. And Jeff was the perfect guy because of his background in the US government Taking down Victor Conte, lance Armstrong, working on the highest of high profile cases and working side by side with you saw that he had all the connections there and I think, in terms of the UFC's drug testing policy, you saw that probably in the big picture, we can look back and say this was a good thing Because we knew what you saw. Everybody knows what you saw. That is, most strict testing procedures, olympic level stuff. So if we're going to start from zero and want to put something in place, let's establish it at a very, very high level for a while and then clean up the sport and clean up our organization in terms of our athletes, and then, now that the contract is up, that's why the UFC was exploring different options because, number one, it can be cheaper. We'll save money by not going with.
Speaker 1:You saw that they're very expensive. There's limitations to you saw that because of their strict policies that they won't bend. And I don't mean for the Conor McGregor situation, I just mean for sensitivity of some of the tests where it doesn't make sense. You had, like you just had I can't think of a situation off the top of my head, but like there were situations where you saw that would come back, like. So Jeff Novitski came up with the example of there's cases of Olympic athletes, women that, like, have had like unprotected sex and then, like, fails the test because their partner had this in their system, she's in, so he's just like. This is the level of like sensitivity that some of these tests go with. And also the lack of understanding of MMA athletes. Right, you don't drug test them on Thursday night. You don't drug test Palo Costa on Thursday night. Don't do it, it's not the time. So so I think that's the point. So, so, so that's the case with you. So, but Jeff Novitski was hired and he's an executive with the UFC and he's in charge of the drug testing program for all the UFC. So he still works for the UFC and he works side by side with Hunter Campbell and other executives on what we're going to do for the next phase of our drug testing program what has worked, what hasn't worked, how much is this going to cost, who's going to do it? And so that's that.
Speaker 1:So you saw that was given all jurisdiction. That's the reason why sometimes we lost fights where it was like this doesn't make sense that we're losing this fight, but you saw it says we have to lose this fight and we're not going to start making exceptions. We can't do that. We have too much to lose the Wild West. So now that's where George Pirro comes in. They hire George Pirro and he George Pirro is not a UFC employee, but he has been given full charge of the UFC's drug testing program. Novitsky is on the UFC side saying this is what we want. He's going to work with George side by side. George Pirro is a contracted person and they have given him the reins, and I don't know what they put in writing, but certainly it'll be in writing. It's his final say he has jurisdiction over UFC drug tests and what will happen. And I'll also say this I was surprised at some of the fighters Number one and fans number two.
Speaker 1:And the media surprised me the most where they heard that they saw this statement by usada and said I guess we're back to pre usada days and it's like you think that we're just going to like gas all drug testing and we're just going to bring the Roids back, bring the steroids back. That's what a lot of people were out there saying, and I'm shocked that they believe that they thought that that is where this was heading, because you saw it fired off an angry email. That is not the case, and the drug testing will make more sense, still be as strict, and I would say, chances that it gets even more strict, because everyone's going to try to. You know, not everyone. People are always going to try to beat the system. There will be some bad seeds that are going to try to beat the system, and I would hear from fighters and they just go.
Speaker 1:Oh, isn't that interesting that he went to Brazil to do this camp. Well, he lost a couple in a row. Now, he did his camp in Brazil. He lives somewhere else. He doesn't live in Brazil. Why do you do his camp in Brazil? And so I think that the network of sample collectors and drug testers is more global. I think it might be wider using drug free sport because of how their business works instead of usada.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know the big thing again. The misnomer I think that people have is, like you said, oh, we're just bringing steroids back Like it's never been a thing. You've never been able to just take steroids in the UFC and in the modern era there's always been testing to some level. You may get away with doing something and not having to test, because a lot of athletic commissions are different. You know pretty much every athletic commission, I believe, tests every participant in a title fight and then generally it's a few random athletes on a card. Anything that's always happening. You know midweek, you know the week of the event, or maybe you have to submit a test to get your license. But yeah, the idea that you can just show up a shredded 285 pounds and you know you're an action figure, it's never been a thing.
Speaker 1:OK, and then I'll say, I'll say another thing, and then if we have techs, I'll address them in terms of the USADA situation, that we can move on to UFC 294. We can talk this weekend if we want. We'll keep the show going. So you saw to lost a quarter of their revenue. They have a huge UFC mural on their wall in their headquarters, so we brought them a lot of money. So when you say follow the money, it's not about the Conor McGregor money, it's about the USADA money that they just lost.
Speaker 1:Ok, and then here's the other thing in regards to Conor McGregor, the timing was not good. We'll see if Conor McGregor follows a lawsuit or whatever he does about that. But in terms of the Conor McGregor situation, they confirmed that he re-entered the testing pool and he did, and so that gives him I don't know the exact date off the top of my head, but if you just do the math on, we're coming up on 294, ufc 295 will be in November. You go forward on it. Ufc 300 is going to be in April. Ok, that's when they're obviously targeting Conor McGregor's return UFC 300 in April. The reason why he just re-entered the pools? Because he needed to be back in the pool for six months. That's the USADA rules. That's the rules that we've been going by. So USADA confirmed that Conor McGregor is back in the USADA drug testing pool to be eligible to return to the UFC after six months. Ok, hunter Campbell and Jeff Novitski came out and they said it doesn't matter how many clean tests he has, if it hasn't been six months, we're not going to bend the rules, even for Conor, because you can't do that. You can't do that. Conor's only going to fight another handful of times in his career. Can't just completely throw the rulebook out the window to get him back for one fight. It's not how it works and there's a lot for the UFC to lose in terms of running a professional organization. So here's the biggest thing If something were to be amiss, the biggest thing would be Jeff Novitski resigning.
Speaker 1:I told him that today because I was talking to a friend and they said well, I guess the first clue is, if they actually uphold the six months for Conor McGregor, they're going to uphold the six months. He entered the test. He re-entered the pool with six months and a little extra, like a week or something like that, in anticipation of trying to return at UFC 300. So if Conor fights at UFC 300, that's six months He'll be tested by USADA for almost three months, right? Because he re-entered the pool early October through the end of the year. That's almost three months. And then he'll be tested under the new drug program just as anybody else, and it'll be six months until he's cleared and can actually fight.
Speaker 1:If we were to bend the rules and he didn't have to wait six months, jeff Novitsky would resign. He's principled enough. I had that conversation with him today. I was just like that would be the biggest clue, because I know you, jeff, and you wouldn't work here, because what's the point in running a drug program if we're not going to abide by it? So that's the last thing I'll say on that. It was bad timing from an optics perspective on the Conor McGregor situation, re-entering the pool. That's why USADA did it and now I think they are going to have some damage control and some spin zone to do when stuff like this is brought up in the future and we'll see what kind of clients want to go their way after they did what they did this week.
Speaker 2:I got one text pertaining to USADA. It's just a question, I think, more for you than me. I've already sort of established my thoughts on this, but what are your thoughts from the 407, wherever that is? What are your thoughts on USADA? Do you feel like there needs to be out of competition drug testing, and does it really make a big difference if an athletic commission is testing them the week of anyway?
Speaker 1:So yes, obviously, no question about it. There needs to be out of competition. That's why more and more athletic commissions are making that a rule too. Obviously, for a long time it's been in competition tests, because that's where the fighters are. It's the cheapest way to do it. I'm glad I don't have to run a drug testing program. I imagine it's very expensive. There's a lot of administrative Like think of the fires that they have to constantly put out and that's when everybody passes their tests. So there's a lot of stuff going on. But it's a part of sports where we can't just go in the honor system and when you're out of competition, think about this. And it's even competition testing that's very strict, like there has been. There are still ways to get around it or ways that athletes think they can get around it, and so out of competition.
Speaker 1:Let's say you're. I don't even want to name any names. Let's just say you win a big fight. And then you're like cool, In my big fight I injured my foot, my injured my knee. So I know I'm going to be out for a while. So I'm just going to wait and I know I'm at least not fighting for four months, five months, and it's my left hand, but I can still run and I can still punch with my right hand and I can still do a lot of lifting and all that other sort of stuff. So you could out of competition yourself with a bunch of stuff that would make you much, much better in the cardio department, Never mind anything else. And then you know, so obviously, yes, you do need out of competition. It needs to be pretty strict. The whole policy needs to be transparent and, you know, obviously needs to follow all the same rules.
Speaker 2:The one thing to.
Speaker 1:Orlando, 407 or Orlando. Thanks for the test.
Speaker 2:Awesome. The other thing too, I think is important for people to realize in the difference between just only going with the athletic commission compared to a third party. You know drug testing agency is what is on the USADA. You know banned list is not necessarily on the banned list for an athletic commission or they don't test for certain things I mean you mentioned. You know the analogy of you know an athlete having unprotected sex with a partner and then testing positive for something like I never heard the word pico gram in my life until you saw was around, but that's. You know the level of testing that they've done. And you know, once you set that that bar in standard, you're going to have to keep it up and I think that the UFC is going to definitely do that. Because, again, the idea that you would be this stringent on out of competition testing and then have your agreement lapse and then just go whatever.
Speaker 2:That just doesn't make sense. Why even go down the road to begin with?
Speaker 1:All right so, but, man, where there are a lot of UFC haters standing by licking their chops earlier this week when you know they thought they had a whole, a whole raw piece of meat to jump on. And so, okay, let's get to UFC 294. Shall we TJ? Because you know, really, the reason why we love this sport is great fights, great fights. And the UFC is awesome because we can take barrel of monkeys in terms of, like you know, just a crap situation. Right, charles Oliveira is out 10 days before and it's just like what is going on. This really stinks. So one phone call, alexander Volkanovsky steps up and he'll get his rematch sooner than we think.
Speaker 1:Now some have said this fight's even bigger than the one the rematch with Charles Oliveira. Now what you can argue pretty easily is that Volkanovsky gave Islam a way better fight than Oliveira did in each of their respective first meetings Went all. Five rounds went 25 minutes. And here's the narrative for Volkanovsky going into that fight, he was a huge underdog. He's great, but he's a featherweight and Islam is too much to handle. And I think there was the controversy in quotes surrounding this result directly has to do with the fact that, going into the fight, a lot of people thought he wouldn't last two rounds, and he not only lasted five rounds, but he was competitive and got better as the fight went on. Right, he won at least a round, definitely maybe two, depending on your scorecards.
Speaker 1:For me, tj, there was no controversy in the result. I'm watching it live. I said it's either 4-1 Islam or 3-2 Islam. Right, there's no now, bolstered by the crowd support in Perth, western Australia and the UFC hadn't been back to Australia in years because of the pandemic and it was so good in terms of a fan standpoint that decision makers at the UFC immediately got on a plane, flew to Sydney and they're like when are we coming back to Australia? We got to get another pay-per-view back here this year. We got to make this happen and, what do you know? We go back to Sydney later in the year and we signed a new deal with the government of Australia that we're going to be in Sydney regularly in the coming years and down in Australia, like a couple of times a year, I think we're going to do a fight night and a pay-per-view there next year.
Speaker 1:So major, major crowd support in a MMA crazed country, lots of huge UFC fans and one of their own. Volk goes to the limit with a guy who was a huge favorite and made it a competitive fight. Having said that, it wasn't controversial. In terms of the results Islam clear winner, and now Islam is a smaller favorite this time around. Then he was back in February and I know betters that are licking their chops on Islam. Akhachev, you're like dude. Now he's getting a home game and he's not going to look past Volk and Volk's on 10 days Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you, brendan. You know, looking at this fight we saw, I mean, we get rematches, but we very rarely get rematches like this this quickly, right, you know, champ versus champ, it's already happened inside this calendar year and I'm curious does this short notice opportunity help or hurt Volkanovsky? Because I mean, I feel like you have Makashev, who was obviously preparing for Olivera not really, you know, training with the mindset to take on Volkanovsky. Volkanovsky does he have? I mean, sometimes in these short notice situations you can say that the guy who steps up on short notice has nothing to lose. I feel that Volk was going to get a rematch eventually as long as he kept winning. If he loses this time, a third fight with Makashev incredibly unlikely, at least any time soon your thoughts on the call and sort of the gamble of taking it, does it help or hurt Alexander?
Speaker 1:I love the yes from Volk, so I don't want this to sound misconstrued towards Volk and I'm a huge fan of Volkanovsky. I love that dude, love everything he stands for. He has worked his way up the chain from a fighter of note the hard way, the long way, but the genuine way, like he's come up the ranks to be a fan favorite. But he has not done it by soundbites, press conferences, antics being a character. He's done it by hard work, by winning, by dominating, and through that comes the message from like you know something that like the rock would be proud of right Hardest working guy in the room Work when the lights are off, work when the cameras are off. It's not about what you do on social media, it's about what you do in the octagon. I love every single aspect about that from Volkanovsky. And now he's worked his way all the way up to be arguably the top pound for pound fighter on the planet, still a dominant featherweight champion.
Speaker 1:Having said all that, I think taking the fight in this circumstance for him hurts him.
Speaker 1:I think that Volk would have a much better chance at beating Islam if he had laser focus a full eight weeks, ten weeks, whatever it happened to be at least even six weeks right, depending on the circumstances, to get, get, get his mind right for the challenge.
Speaker 1:He's got maybe the best fight IQ in the entire world. Islam's right up there too. Don't be, don't be fooled by that. But Volk has as good a fight IQ in terms of how he chooses to game, plan what's going to work, what he wants to avoid, and so I think having a full camp with his coaching staff on saying this is what happened, let's watch the fight in detail like 12 times, and then let's work on one thing, and then we'll go watch the fight again in detail and then we'll go to work on one thing and to ingrain maybe some new habits or new reflexes, because that's what you got to rely on when you're in there. And I think that this situation albeit it gets the biggest hat tip from me and you know it certainly will pave the way for him. You know, on his way to immortality as a fighter, if he could become a double champ this way. But I do think it hurts his chances of winning taking the fight under these circumstances.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you. But when the UFC calls and it's for a title fight, I mean you have to say yes, yeah and you could say he has nothing to lose.
Speaker 1:Obviously, what he does have to lose is if he doesn't win, then he's probably not getting an Islam Islam double champ fight opportunity anytime soon, right, but you got to ask yourself, was he getting that anyways Anytime soon? Because he was scheduled for topuria coming up and that fight's not completely off the table. But maybe it is, maybe it's not, but the point being is that Islam was gonna fight Charles Olyvera. Justin Gaichi is the, the BMF title winner and Waiting for a title shot and he's got Ali as a manager who gets his guys title fights. So you got to think it was gonna be Olyvera and then, depending on win or lose, maybe it's a trilogy with Islam.
Speaker 1:If Olyvera pulled that off or if Islam wins, justin Gaichi is just sitting there waiting and we have some big events and we'd have some championship opportunities for fights coming up in early 2024, like, as mentioned, ufc 300 right has a couple of big lightweight's Scheduled to maybe tangle in that main event, maybe also put another lightweight title fight on there so that nothing can go wrong. And if things did go wrong, then you have matchups involving a Michael Chandler, a Connor McGregor, a UFC lightweight title. The belt just happens to be in the building, I don't know. So there was those possibilities. But so all that to say that Volk Would have had to wait, probably anyways, and defend his featherweight title at least once, maybe twice, to get another double champ shot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you think about Mikhail Chev in the evolution that that we'll see? You know, from fight one to fight two With Volkanovsky, do you think we'll see a much different approach from Islam?
Speaker 1:I mean, I Don't know, I I don't think so. I don't think he's gonna chase the finish. I Think maybe tries to keep it on the feet a little bit more this time around, although in the grappling exchanges he looked pretty good. I think he'll. Yeah, it's really tough to say because, on one hand, I think that he would be more urgent towards a finish if it was a matchup that was ready.
Speaker 1:But remember when Kamara Ustman fought Jorge Mosvidal and it was supposed to be Ustman versus Gilbert Burns on the first fight island right back in July of 2020? And the reason why that fight ended up being boring is because Ustman wanted to take less chances and so he wanted to secure the W, because when you're in that position, there is a whole lot at stake pay-per-view points coming in as the champion. He's in Abu Dhabi, for Christ's sakes, in terms of UFC 294 in the location. So I'll be curious to see Islam, because I know, on one hand, he wants to send the message, like he's probably like I can't believe people are saying I didn't win that last fight. I beat him, um, and so obviously, what's the way to remedy that is to Very clearly beat him by making him tap out or knocking him out right but on a 10-day situation, when you're preparing for a very unique and crazy challenge of Charles Olivera, then then I don't know what the game plan.
Speaker 1:I don't really have in my head exactly what he should do. Maybe actually I'll take him down more because he was able to take down Volk. Like we looked in detail at that fight Be on UFC breakdown, which sadly it was about the Islam and Charles fight, so it won't even hit the airwaves, but I just recorded it on Monday was safe and he was going and we basically dove deep into olivera's last fight against Benio and Islam's last fight against Volk because they had each fought one time. Since they fought each other and you know, like I said, how, volkan Oskie has great fight IQ, among the best in the whole in the world.
Speaker 1:But like Islam was right there, like Islam clearly had timing, like Volkan Oskie not an easy got to take down, maybe even tougher to hold down, and he was able to do that. And so when you like watch it in slow motion with an educated coach kind of being like look at this, like Head off to the side, when Volk came in and he didn't just like try to get him with a hook or get him with a jab to keep his distance, like he would step in and he elbowed Volk. He's just like you got to be confident when you're going in with the time for an elbow. And Islam landed those. He dropped them like Volk's not a tough guy, they're not an easy guy to drop and the in the punching and in the striking and he's certainly not an easy guy to take down and hold down. Islam did all three of those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's still early in Mikashev's run, but I mean I firmly believe that if all goes well and and he's able to Continue his progression. I mean, I know recency bias might be something here, but I feel Brennan like he really has all the capabilities to get to where Khabib was. I think that he's from that same cookie cutter. I think that he has the skills. I think he is better stand up, in my opinion, than Khabib. I think he could be better than Khabib Nirmogomedov was. Yeah, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, you slip up, you get caught one time and you have that one in the lost column. The whole conversation changes about your entire career and it'll never and never be any different. I had a chance to interview.
Speaker 2:Evan Turner, the former NBA player yesterday and we were talking about that, the idea it pertains to Usman. You know the 25 seconds in that. Uh, Leon Edwards fight left and we're talking about it was like 50 seconds, right yeah maybe okay, got you, but bottom line is less than a minute.
Speaker 1:I'm not trying to be an asshole, but it was like 50 seconds it's alright, I always thought you were an asshole.
Speaker 2:It's okay, um, but uh, looking at it like, think of another sport where, in basketball, you can't just make one basket and you win the game. Two minutes into the first quarter you win the game. Yeah, same thing. You can't just miss one shot or lose one shot, and your entire legacy hinges upon that. Maybe in a big moment, yeah, maybe you throw up a brick game. Seven NBA finals people are gonna remember it forever.
Speaker 2:But, the idea that you are this long-standing champion, statistically speaking one of the best, if not the best, to do it numbers wise, and you just slip for a minute, get kicked upside the head and then all of a sudden people are saying you were never really good to begin with. Yeah, crazy thing. And that's a pressure that I think most athletes will never understand outside of fighters, because you know there are seasons. You know no one's gonna remember that strikeout you had in in June.
Speaker 2:Necessarily they might not remember that strikeout in October but not in June and the idea that it can all go awry on. You know just the the turn of a dime. Pretty crazy. I use a basketball analogy.
Speaker 1:Oddly enough, You're telling that to a basketball player. I use a basketball analogy when I describe what happened To the non UFC fan or the non MMA fan about the Leon head kick. I said imagine a team's down 30 points. There's 30 seconds left. Yeah, this team hit a 31 pointer. And then everyone's just like, oh, that team stinks, like this championship team that had won titles upon titles, and they're up 30 points in the championship. And then, all of a sudden, it's just like, oh, they hit that 31 pointer. They weren't even that good anyways. That's, that's the, that is the. That's one of the reasons why we love MMA, why it's like a drug that you can't quit. It's like a slot machine. It's variable rewards. You might show up, you might have a fight that stinks. You might have a great fight, you might have a fight that's dominated by one guy and then he gets kicked in the head and the whole world of the sport shifts, especially in that division. Right, and it'll never be the same. Yep, because then Ussman couldn't beat him.
Speaker 1:The second time now Ussman's gonna fight Hamzat Chimayev. What if he loses? Now that's three losses in a row for people you guy that was knocking on the door being the welterweight greatest of all time His name was right there at George St Pierre, yeah. And now he might lose three in a row and it might be like, oh, now he looks old. And then it's like see you later. I mean, we were talking about, you know, the idea of whether or not.
Speaker 2:This is a good move for Volkonovsky. Uh, and what there is to lose and gain for for Ussman. I mean, man, the, the stakes could not be higher. Uh, in a fight that, stylistically, I honestly don't know what this fight is going to look like. I I don't know where Hamzat's head is. Necessarily I know that Ussman is a guy that even when he was dominating and you remember he would get on the microphone in his post fight interviews and he would start screaming. You know, put respect on my name. He needs to be a guy that gets kicked in the head and then he's like, start screaming. You know, put respect on my name. He needs to be a guy, I think, that feels like the world is against him. I don't know if, necessarily, the world is against him. Who?
Speaker 1:Useman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he's a guy that wants to think that there's haters. You know there's a guy, he's a guy that I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think he tries to, I think he tries to get people to like him and he's, I don't know, like I don't know Kamaru that well, I just get the sense that he doesn't thrive on the hate. I thought Tyron Woodley thrived on the hate.
Speaker 2:I agree with Woodley, but I feel like the last few post-fight interviews Useman, the first thing he would say when he would get on the mic was everyone doubted me. It's like, dude, you're the greatest welterweight.
Speaker 1:I've seen in the last five years Like I don't know what you're talking about but-. Football coach talk. Yeah, I mean you know that's Dabo Sweeney, with the number one team a few years and he's just like outside this locker room. Not many people believed in us. It's like what do you mean? He's like every touchdown favorite and everybody picked you to win the championship before the season started.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So, like you know, he has that a bit of language.
Speaker 2:sure, I mean the DAS brothers need to hate whoever they're fighting, even if they don't, you know in the US is who they are. But let's talk a little bit about Useman, because, I mean, not only is he taking this fight on shorter notice, but at 185 pounds against Hamza.
Speaker 1:I know, I know.
Speaker 2:What do we expect? Because there's question marks about Kamaru coming into a fight fully trained at welterweight and there's even more so short notice at middleweight.
Speaker 1:So I think people are excited to see Hamza Chimayev back in the octagon. There's no question about it. And for Kamaru Useman, what he has shown is when he can control the pace, when he can do what he wants to do, then the fight isn't very back and forth and sometimes it's not as crowd-pleasing as fans would like it, but that's why I went to a new level against Colby the first time they fought back in December of 2019, we're looking at some footage of it now. It's just a great fight because it was the first maybe not the first time, but it was like a time where we saw Kamaru take some big shots, get pushed to the limit and fire right back and not just make it about fighting the fight that he wants. He fought a fight that was very, very different than what we saw him win, and so obviously he did that against Colby the first time. He beat Colby the second time, but against Leon Edwards the first time. That was his brand of just dominate, cage control, top control. He lost the first round. What people don't remember all the time is like he was dominant. He was clearly up three to one, but he also clearly lost the first round, and I think what people are very excited about, with Useman stepping up to take this fight, is Chimayev fights like no other fighter. He is a bully, he is urgent, he is all action. I mean, he's going to try to make a statement, and Chimayev largely did that against lower tiered fighters.
Speaker 1:When you think about his debut, was it like? Was it Jack Phillips? And then it was Reese McKee, on like 10 days notice, like he was just whitewashing these guys. He was just like wiping them out. And now the competition's gotten better. Gerald Merchardt he's a UFC veteran and he just goes one punch and done, and you know, against Gilbert Burns, though Then the story changes a little bit.
Speaker 1:So I think a lot of people want to see, they wanted to see Homs up, move up to 185. They wanted to see Homs out fight again, because it's been a long time. And now they're gonna get Kamara Usman as credentialed as he is in a new weight class, and now they're gonna get him in a fight against a guy like Usman or against a guy like Chamiah, who's such a bully yeah, such a bully like even Leon Edwards would beat Usman twice. Now he's not a bully, he's a. He's a, he's an assassin, he's a technical striker that can do it all. Now he's gonna get a bully who's just like who knows how Chamiah was gonna do it. But you know, and here's for all. Like, I love the UFC, I love my job. I don't you know if it's an anti UFC stance. I, I don't. I don't take it right. I don't like that. Dana is saying that the winner of this fight is gonna get the next title shot at 185. Don't like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, neither of these guys are established.
Speaker 1:85 pounder to welter weights. Yeah, they're fighting at 185. No one's in the top 10. And Rick is du Plessis standing there Right, who just knocked out Robert Whitaker in the way that, like very few people ever have. Audisanya is the only other one who knocked out Whitaker like that. Whitaker was very much the max Holloway of that division turning back Marvin Vittori, turning back Jared Cannon. Air beat Gastelum anybody you put in front of them, as long as his name wasn't Israel, audisanya, whitaker would win. And then Driekes goes in as a plus three plus four hundred underdog and he knocks him out ends him and so he's the top contender.
Speaker 1:And now is he saying he's gonna be out for a while and Strickland's gonna look for a fight. And Strickland, as I mentioned at the top of the show, tj ran into him in the locker room at the UFC PI today and Strickland was fight. Anybody's not choose, he's not a fighter that chooses stuff. No, he says I'll do it. But he told me just like if they put me in front of Chimayev or Ustman, he's like I'm gonna. I'm gonna say why do we even have rankings? I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell that story, get ready for it. Strickland will just it. We know he's not shy, we know he's outspoken right. And so if two welterweights move up to 185 and the winner gets Sean Strickland for a 185 championship when neither is in the top 10, there's there's.
Speaker 2:That's where there's some issue well, a lot of it too, is how it gets done right, like if it's a pitter-patter. Neither guy really makes a huge statement and wins on points. Yeah no one's getting title fight out of it.
Speaker 1:I don't is Chimayev, repped by Ali.
Speaker 2:That's a good question. Hopefully a producer, frankie, can look into that.
Speaker 1:I'm not so Chimayev might be repped by Ali I know it, ustman was or still is. Ustman is yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's crazy to me that you would manage guys that would end up fighting one another.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna say the name.
Speaker 1:He's done it. He's done it.
Speaker 2:I know I'm not gonna say the name, but there was a guy back in the day that was sort of notorious for having a lot of UFC fighters fight but they never really won, and I Used to have a nickname for him called show money, because that's all he ever got was a percentage of their show money.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, he guaranteed a win bonus one time when his guys fought each other. But I Got a question here, this one from the 417. It says hey guys, what do you think about Hamzat or Kamara Ustman, stylistically and physically, with their body types, who makes the better middleweight?
Speaker 1:Ustman's not that big. Um, ustman is not that tall Like Ustman would co Ustman will look smaller. Like he's, he is cut out of granite. Ustman is very physically impressive, no question about it. But sometimes You'd be surprised by the the stature of fighters when they're in person, because Ustman looks like in Ganu kind of like, in terms of like their stature, their body type, like he is huge, he is like very physically impressive. But then when you stand him next to a guy that's like six, two, you're just like oh, this one's not that big.
Speaker 1:Yeah because he's like very clearly like 510, right? So, um, ustman, at 185, you stand him next to Marvin Vittori. I don't know, like I don't, you know, like I haven't, I don't really run into Ustman that much. Sometimes he does some TV work and I'll see him behind the scenes, right. But he, ustman's not one of those guys where you're like I can't believe he makes 170, right. He's kind of like, yeah, he makes 170, like he's, he's chiseled but he makes it. There's a lot of guys like that. So, at middleweight, I think Stan Ustman, next to Driekes, he'll look, he'll look quite a bit different. Driekes is like built like that and he's, all of you know, six to what, 220, probably, six to two, fifteen to twenty, outside of camp.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember Jacare Sosa is the guy that I stood next to. It was just absolutely blown away that he was 185 pounder because he was so big in his shoulders. And that's that's what people, I don't think realize, that they put a lot of stock into. You know height and Don't get me wrong. You can be very tall and, you know, be comfortable at a higher weight class, but there are also guys that are above six feet tall that fight at Bannham weight. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean put it this way Ustman was as dominant as he was at 170. Was anybody that entire time saying oh, look out, he's got everything to be a double champ? Nobody was saying that, no, no, nobody was like he's so big and good, he could go to middleweight and dominate that division too. They haven't been saying that no.
Speaker 1:So it will be interesting to see him move up to 185. And Chimayev, you know, didn't make the weight at 170, but he did have some big wins again. Gerald Mershardt, veteran middleweight, and he just won in Dundam Right and then obviously had trouble making the weight when he missed by a large amount and then ended up fighting who was it? He fought Li Jingliang, or who did he fight that night? He fight Li Jingliang, and that's right. And then Ferguson fought Diaz, and so you know that's why I'm like no he fought Holland, sorry Holland.
Speaker 1:Oh, he wiped out Holland, that's right. Who's now a welterweight too? So that's why it's just like what are we proving at 185 here, right, what are we proving enough to give him a title shot when the top contender Was ready to say yes to a title fight in December, if that's what the timing was? And now he's just gonna be on the shelf I'm talking about driches and ready to go. And now he's the number two contender because Israel loss. So Israel is number one. Israel saying he's taken a lot of time off, he's gonna heal himself up and Sean Strickland will fight anybody. I think it's kind of easy, but um our producer, frankie, came through for us.
Speaker 2:Doesn't look like Ali Reps Hamzat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was just one time, but yeah, no, he doesn't, but but Usman is and Ali has the ability to get title fights, right, if you've been following along. So I don't have any insider knowledge on that negotiation, but you always got a wonder like just like, all right, if I say yes, I get to fight for the title with a win.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm, I'm angling for it, no matter what. If I'm stepping up on short notice, I'm gonna course you gotta get some, these guys should get something.
Speaker 1:They saved the card in a major way. Obviously, we had two fights call out, but yeah, you know it was big.
Speaker 2:So more stressful job than being a matchmaker like.
Speaker 1:Sean Shelby. Just it's so funny, like it's just so funny to talk to him this morning. All right, I just want to answer there's questions on the YouTube live stream that I just want to get to real quick because it actually has. So Somebody chiming in with why isn't the Lacerita fight happening tomorrow? Edgar Chai res and Daniel Lacerita they fought at Noche and was an early stoppage, so they were gonna run it back this weekend and the fight was canceled. Lacerita made wait. He had a medical issue commit. After you weigh in, you got to go do medicals and you know Nevada State Athletic Commission doctor has to check them out and say good to go. There was something that they didn't like in terms of his medical, so they canceled that fight. So that fight was off.
Speaker 1:But anyways, like I'm like I'm in touch with Shelby during those because he's kind of floating around and if somebody misses weight like Christian Rodriguez missed weight today and Anthony Pettis is his manager and is there, and so then like Shelby's kind of Going around playing damage control on a Friday at the apex, like all the time, like if everyone makes weight, his job is easy, but if it's not, he's like taking calls and he's gotten used to it, but it is just kind of like comical to see the fires that he has to constantly put out. You know, I mean I told him. You know, because he's second cousins with Tom Brady, by the way too. You know that I did like you say and so I told him. I said Sean Shelby, I'm pissed at you because of all the apex shows that I call, which is like all of them. But I didn't call last week and Tom Brady's in the front row.
Speaker 1:Tom Brady would have been eight feet to my left sitting next to Dana. I would have asked Dana like listen, favorite athlete of all time, can I just meet him? I don't even want a picture. Can I just say hello? Can I just say hello, grew up a Patriots fan, you know, love that, you won the Super Bowl for the Bucks, whatever. And Shelby's like, oh man, yeah, he was in town, he was doing something for the aces, and then, you know, we came over and he caught like half the main card or whatever. And then we all went to YouTube me, dana and Tom. It was an amazing show. And I was just like dude, screw you. I was like can I have your life for that night? Hang out with Tom Brady. Go over to see you two at the sphere.
Speaker 2:I mean, why does everyone hate you, Brendan? Why aren't you invited to social things?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I guess not. Well, I think I'll get my time with Tom Brady. I think that if I hang around long enough, I'll get to look him in the eye, give him a handshake and say I'm a big fan because he's friends with Dana, he's cousins with Shelby and he's a big UFC fan. So here's hoping.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:All right, have we wrapped it?
Speaker 2:up TJ. I don't know, see, is there anything else we need to talk about? Is there any other?
Speaker 1:pressing questions. I mean, we kind of went over Usman and Chimaya.
Speaker 2:Ah, how about this? Buy or sell? There's value on Eds and Barbosa tomorrow at a plus 140 underdog against Sadiq Youssef.
Speaker 1:So I can't pick TJ, I can't call in the-. I'm not saying that you should pick, Don't fight.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying you should pick, I'm just saying there's been a lot of underdogs lately Like to me. I hate to say I'll go into business and say that I think there's value there. I don't bet fights but when you look at the experience here that Eds and Barbosa has, I think it's crazy to look at how long he's been in the UFC 13-year octagon veteran, taking on Sadiq Youssef who you know is doing great for himself. He's definitely a guy to keep your eye on. But I'm sorry, eds and Barbosa has the ability to change fights on a dime, a kicking attack unlike any other, and it takes I mean, we're talking about Leon Edwards and that one head kick. It takes a fraction of a second for Eds and Barbosa to make everyone forget that he was an underdog. So again, I'm not saying bet, but if there's value on any underdog, there's always value on thinking that Eds and Barbosa could win the fight.
Speaker 1:All right, not gonna disagree, and I will use this opportunity to plug our awesome show on UFC Fight Pass, called UFC on the Line, in which Yanni the Greek and Nick Kaleekis chop it up.
Speaker 1:They are our resident gambling experts and they give you their take and they give you their bets.
Speaker 1:So if you're unaware of that, that one is on UFC Fight Pass and Streaming right now, and we did do an episode for this weekend and then we'll have another episode coming out for UFC 294, and I'll just give the little top hint is that Yanni agrees with UTJ that there's plenty of value on a guy like Eds and Barbosa, whenever you get plus money on him still I mean, he's 37, he's been around but the strength of schedule on Sadiq Youssef is not the strength of schedule of Eds and Barbosa. He has not fought the top level guys and Eds and Barbosa has consistently fought the top level guys. So this is very much a measuring stick for Youssef and the question is are you gonna pay for it by laying money or are you gonna take the underdog, get a little plus money on the guy that's been there, done that, coming off a huge knockout over Billy Q. Billy Q was a favorite in that fight too, and so, yes, yanni believes that there is some value on that underdog spot for Barbosa.
Speaker 2:We've got one final text message here from the 949,. It says what are your thoughts on the year of the underdog? This year it's been a record-setting calendar year for new champions and I tend to lean towards underdogs when forced to pick. All right, I like underdogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, from the Orange County, California, 949.
Speaker 2:Are you like a rain man with area codes?
Speaker 1:No, I got a little something called Google on my computer, tj when you say but you just pulled it up that quickly though. Yeah, cause it's like the magician trick. You said, all right, we got a text from the 949, and then, while you read it, I can come in. You should have just trolled me forever, I would have thought I know, I should have just pulled back to curtain like that.
Speaker 2:Go with it.
Speaker 1:Underdogs are fun. Everybody loves an underdog story. I don't think that's ever gonna go out of style. New champions can be fun and obviously like things that you don't see coming. That's why we watch sports Right. And so, if you know, if Izzy just won another 10 in a row and Usman won another 10 in a row and Islam just won another 10 in a row, then, like every once in a while, you wanna mix. Now, dominance is fun too. That's why the Kansas City Chiefs get good TV ratings.
Speaker 2:I thought it was Taylor.
Speaker 1:Swift, yeah, well, in addition to that, okay, but. But, like you know, dominance will get eyeballs and then that builds it up, right, think of Valentina Shevchenko. But Valentina Shevchenko was getting a little stale. It was just like, all right, who's she just gonna demolish this time, right. And now, isn't the Flyweight Division a whole lot more fun, even though Valentina should have the belt back because of the controversial judging situation? But now Grasso opened the door. There's light in that. You know, dark maze that was dominated by Valentina. And and then so now that the big question is Featherweight to me, that's the big question, right, because every other thing is like Jones and Steepay is a very compelling fight.
Speaker 1:You know, 205 is a division where we're just, you know, it's just been a crazy mix of what's going on over the last couple of years. 185 now has a little juice in terms of like, who's gonna be next? How are they gonna do so? There's a lot of divisions where there's a lot of compelling matchups, and I think underdogs are fun. I think championship belts changing hands are fun. It's not always the case, because you gotta build stars too, right? The reason why Connor got as big as he was is because he was so dominant and the rise is awesome. It's good for business, it's good for being a fan, it's good for a lot of stuff. But the year of the underdog, the year of belts changing hands I'm here for it, man. We need years like this too.
Speaker 2:I agree. I wonder if anybody puts out prop bets on like how many title changes there will be in the calendar year.
Speaker 1:I'll talk to my friends at DraftKings, we'll see. That's another one. They started doing futures, like you can bet who's gonna be the middleweight champion at the end of 2024.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's fun, you can bet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so like at the beginning of the year, we talk about it on the line who's gonna be the lightweight champion at the end of 2023? We talked about that like back in February, right, and then right now. The interesting one is they brought the heavyweight odds out a month or two ago and, because of what we talked about last week of the retirement rumors, is the highest ranked, the shortest odds for who's gonna be the heavyweight champ at the end of 2024. I believe was Pavlovich. Wow, pavlovich Almeida was up there and I think Tom Aspinall was like six to one. Jones and Steepay were around, but, like Steepay was like 12 to one. Really, yeah for the end, he's gotta hold the title at the end of 2024.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like there are championship futures like that and maybe I'll talk to DraftKings and see if we can say over under, like belts to change hands, like champions to lose in a year. That's a good idea.
Speaker 2:I like that. I like stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, tej, I like doing the show with you, friend, and this is fun. It's just fantastic, this is good. So two Fridays in a row.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did get one phone call, by the way, and unfortunately I screened it, and they were just trying to be an asshole. They were trying to be a.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks, tj, doing the Lord's work there. But no, this was great Two Fridays in a row. I'm on the call tomorrow for Yusuf and Barbosa at the Apex, and so we'll have some fun here in Las Vegas. Next week, tj, we'll talk off camera. Next week, I'm going to ESPN. Okay, I'm gonna go do the shows, the pre-show and the whatever not from Abu Dhabi, but from ESPN, so maybe we get back on the horn from a hotel room in Bristol, connecticut, on Friday. Maybe we'll adjust the time depending on my schedule or whatever, something like that.
Speaker 2:I feel offended because I'm coming to Vegas next Friday.
Speaker 1:Oh well, yeah, and you're leaving, so Got out of town, otherwise we could do it in person. But Thanks everybody for watching, listening however you consume the show. But yeah, FITS Nation started as an interview podcast. I like this live format, taking calls, texts. Put myself out there a little bit, got a little fired up at the Yusuf people for being snakes and you know telling how it really is going down and the new drug testing program that's about to be put in place. My thanks to TJ DeSantis as well for running the board.
Speaker 1:Frankie on the UFC Fight Pass side of things was behind the scenes as well and I do have a podcast interview coming out with Kyle Bohiolo. Don't look for that next week. There's gonna be plenty to keep you busy with UFC 294 next week. Look for that. The following week he fights in Sao Paulo in, I believe, the Comaine event. That'll be down there. But me and Kyle met in person here in Las Vegas. We had a great chat. So that'll come out in a couple of weeks time and, yeah, keep things going. So FITS Nation signing off. I'll talk to you guys very soon. Thanks for watching.