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I sat down with UFC commentator John Gooden, a man whose life was turned upside down by the COVID-19 pandemic. From the thrill of Fight Island to visa issues and reduced work, John invites us into his world to share his personal journey rising the ranks as an MMA commentator. John's story is a testament to resilience, perseverance and a good, old-fashioned bet on himself.
John's career has been one of transitions... from a plush job in London to a modest position at the BBC, he found himself drawn to martial arts and the world of MMA and UFC. In our candid conversation, John reveals how this passion steered his career trajectory, and the sacrifices he made to seize the international opportunities he always yearned for. His journey, though filled with trials, has instilled in him a unique perspective on life, pressure, and privilege.
As we delve into John's world, we also explore the themes of personal growth and gratitude. He shares how books like "Four Thousand Weeks" and "Die With Zero" have influenced his outlook and the importance of staying connected to the community. Despite the harsh criticisms and high stakes in the demanding world of UFC, John underlines the importance of hard work, kindness, and the pursuit of passion. Join us as we delve into the story of a man who gambled on his dreams and reaped the rewards of his courage.
Fitz Nation on YouTube
Fitz Nation on UFC Fight Pass
Fitz Nation merch
I sat down with UFC commentator John Gooden, a man whose life was turned upside down by the COVID-19 pandemic. From the thrill of Fight Island to visa issues and reduced work, John invites us into his world to share his personal journey rising the ranks as an MMA commentator. John's story is a testament to resilience, perseverance and a good, old-fashioned bet on himself.
John's career has been one of transitions... from a plush job in London to a modest position at the BBC, he found himself drawn to martial arts and the world of MMA and UFC. In our candid conversation, John reveals how this passion steered his career trajectory, and the sacrifices he made to seize the international opportunities he always yearned for. His journey, though filled with trials, has instilled in him a unique perspective on life, pressure, and privilege.
As we delve into John's world, we also explore the themes of personal growth and gratitude. He shares how books like "Four Thousand Weeks" and "Die With Zero" have influenced his outlook and the importance of staying connected to the community. Despite the harsh criticisms and high stakes in the demanding world of UFC, John underlines the importance of hard work, kindness, and the pursuit of passion. Join us as we delve into the story of a man who gambled on his dreams and reaped the rewards of his courage.
Where do I begin with John Gooden? We've been talking for 15 minutes in podcast format without the recording going. How are you, john, good to see in Las Vegas, my friend?
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I always get giddy thinking about Las Vegas. There's just something about, uh like the hangover movie.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And when my buddies and I were all getting married, it was always destination Las Vegas. So there's still this thing. By the way, it's very not the hangover movie Whenever I visit Vegas nowadays, but you're still hopeful. So yeah, it's got this, this mystique about it.
Speaker 1:Las Vegas does, yeah, it does so even though I'm coming over here and I'm, you know, like we always do just see the four walls of a hotel room mostly, I'm probably going to get to walk down the strip at some point, and even flying in and seeing like Las Vegas illuminated. It's cool as shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, flying into Vegas at night is fantastic. Do you think the mystique is a higher because you're from the UK? Yeah, yeah, yeah, like it's more so than even somebody from Florida or New York. I think so.
Speaker 1:And then you go home and you tell the mums on the school gate or your buddies, you know, and you go, what are you doing next?
Speaker 2:I'm going to Vegas.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, you go to the best places. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, so I do the Palis station casino, no less. I mean I'll leave that bit out. No, of course. But, um, of course, embellish the truth if you like. It is funny school.
Speaker 2:And then when you live here and even when we move back here my wife went to college here, so we're familiar with the city even before we move back in 2017. And I remember thinking like, yeah, but I was here in my 20s and I still will go down to the strip and I like it. And now, like six, I can't be bothered to go down to the strip, you know and it's weird, it's like this piece of you like dies.
Speaker 2:Well, no, it wouldn't, because if I went to New York City, if I went to London, I would go to Buckingham Palace.
Speaker 1:I'd be like here I am, here I am, I'm ready to see the site. You're at Queenie, yeah, you know Well. No, not now Kingie?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, king, I don't rest there. So oh the crown. What a show.
Speaker 1:So John.
Speaker 2:I, um, I feel like I struggled through the pandemic, more so in the rear when I look at it from a rear view perspective than when I was actually in it. When we were during the pandemic it's like okay, this is what it is, I'm not going to let it ruin my day, blah, blah, blah. But as the world like came out of it and I look back on it, I'm just like gosh. I probably really kind of battled it mentally in a lot of different ways, Some of it self induced, some of it because of the situations that we were all forced to adapt to, and I always, like, kept in perspective. I'm just like nobody in our role as broadcasters or doing what we love to do in this space, got the shorter end of the stick than you.
Speaker 1:How did you handle it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you agree with it, and how do you handle it?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not sure I agree fully on the thick of the pandemic, like 2020. Cause actually when the UFC was forced to go to fight Island.
Speaker 2:I got the nod.
Speaker 1:But coming out of the pandemic, like 2021, when the UFC started opening up in some states over here, then there were no longer going to fight Island. I didn't have a visa to come over. I wasn't able to do shoots in Europe because no one was traveling around yet all the protocols were set in place. So I always bang this drum and I feel like it's a broken record. But I don't know if people realize that a lot of my role is actually producing.
Speaker 2:I do a lot of producing stuff for the.
Speaker 1:UFC which means visiting fighters or during fight week into being people. So, but you take that away from me then. Not only am I not getting runouts on the broadcast, I'm disconnected from my UFC family.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And as humans, we want to add value. You know, we want to be a part of something, we want to know that we're useful and of course we've got to put bread on the table, got to turn a coin as my dad would say, and so that was taken away from me.
Speaker 1:So the first experiences of fight Island were fantastic and I'll shout out John Barry in the digital social team, who's got a tattoo of fight Island on his arm, and I kind of gave him a little shit for that when I first saw it. I'm like what are you doing? Like, getting a tattoo of fight Island is like dude. You do realize. The rest of the world was locked away in their homes while we got to play with fight stuff out in a pretty exotic place and the first one we had access to a beach even took out a jet skier a couple of times. So we, that was something very special and it really kept me afloat because, thinking about the curtain, my books were down 60% in 2021. So I was, I was shaking in the corner. I thought I was going to lose my house.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:And because I'm again I don't know if people know, but like I'm not a UFC employee, I'm a contractor, right. So, yeah, that put a lot of pressures on it. And also, I mean, you understand my personality type. Like I, I'm a thinker, an overthinker, so I would be sitting there rather than spending quality time with my family, because that was what a lot of people were doing, I'm sitting there thinking my company is failing, I can't see what's coming up and then, god forbid this, this job that I've taken so many risks and sacrifices to do, I think it's going to go away. I genuinely thought that the Dan Hooker Paul Felder fights was the final fight that I was going to call at one point and I thought what a great one to go out on it was a great experience over in New Zealand as well, but a lot of dark thoughts.
Speaker 1:you know it's a real shame, but thankfully in 2023 visa stuff's been sorted out and I've had a hell of a run this summer as well.
Speaker 2:So, we're back to full power, baby Dude, when it rains at Pours. You went to Singapore to do a triathlon, then our event was there. Then you went back to Paris, then you went to Sydney, yeah, and now you're here, yeah, and then you're going to come back in October and back again here, then I go out to Abu Dhabi before.
Speaker 1:I have a breather, yeah, and it's very different because when I was, I was spending sometimes. I think the longest I went was nine months between calling fights.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1:It was often like November, and then the next run out would be London around March.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And you and John and all the rest of the guys and gals do such a good job. When you're rusty, I challenge anyone in their respective roles take a vacation for two weeks, come back. Are you at the same pace? So then take off six months.
Speaker 1:And this isn't a sympathy thing, by the way, it's just my cognition and I was just my awareness that the UFC maintains a level Like I'm expected to hit that level. I haven't been told that, but it's probably. Maybe I'll put it on myself. I've got to try and hit those notes out the gates and I think I've got away with it. But then I but in getting there a lot, of, a lot of anxiety, you know, anticipation, anxiety and so, having a run like this, there's been no room to get worked up about what I am or I'm not doing, what my last call was like compared to what's coming up, how Brendan did the last one and John's done, and none of God. I can't let the side down. I haven't had time for it, so it's been good. You know, I feel like my blood pressure has probably maintained a pretty decent level for the last month, despite the travel.
Speaker 2:It's remarkable what you can do between your own ears, like you said, like the anxiety of just like I thought this was the last fight. I'm disconnected from the crew, because that's how I felt too, because it was funny, like on the meetings the other day you're like, hey guys, where are we going Saturday after the fight? Like what about you? And I'm like I got family in town and then our producers, just like I might go to California. I'm just like John, welcome to the apex. It's kind of a, it's more of an office situation we all go to work.
Speaker 2:We all go home, but it's crazy how your mind can play tricks, like even just recently, like if I'll do a rip of like a bunch of apex shows in a row, I'm just like gosh, does anybody like me anymore? Like I don't know, I'm not seeing him, and it's just like, yeah, I'm not seeing them because we're all going home to our families and I don't have a road trip coming up, so like nothing changes. And then it's remarkable how quickly you can like find the flow again. Like Singapore was great, it felt like we missed no time.
Speaker 1:You know I hadn't seen you in like a year and a half.
Speaker 2:And it's like cool, we're at breakfast. This is, this is normal now and you can get right back into it. You mentioned that you took a lot of risks to become a broadcaster and I don't exactly know your story, but I just know that you're not a formally trained broadcaster. No Like what, what, what is the background of before? Were you a little an electrician?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes back before then. So, growing up, yeah, I probably won't go back that far, but let's say I did the usual, went to university, got a degree and then went to the city of London and was working in the financial markets, but on a kind of recruitment side. So I would be headhunting for banks, if you will, in a technology space, and it wasn't really where I wanted to be. There's a lot of salesy type people.
Speaker 2:Was it like? This is what I'm supposed to do as an adult a little bit like that. I had a friend like that, Like he didn't really like finance but he majored in finance and then he got a financial job and then it's.
Speaker 1:You know, I wanted to be a stockbroker.
Speaker 2:Oh, you did, Okay yeah.
Speaker 1:I did, and I felt like getting closer to the city would allow me to show my strength and then I'd finally find a way. But it didn't quite happen like that. I enjoyed my time, but I got really confident when I was over there, cause I stayed at home. When I went to university, I was in love, but that relation didn't work out when I got fairly confident. Now I'm working in a city of London and when I was there cause I'm old everyone was out on like a Thursday night, friday night, like a Monday night, and it was debauchery. So I was getting noticed and I had a little money in my pocket as well. You could look good, like it's been. I've been wearing these suits for a minute now.
Speaker 1:So, with that confidence, I then started looking around at certain job roles and I just saw a few presenters or hosts, as you might call them back in the UK. I was like that looks like a really fun job and I would walk in a room and I could hold a crowd. And I'm a little different now. I'm a little bit more reserved than what Johnny G was back in a day. But it gave me this thought that oh, fuck it, I'll go and do that. And so I jacked in this job really well paid job in the city and joined the BBC working for free. I was on a consumer products show, but it was still fun at the time. Anyway, I was doing all of that and then I realized that I was getting paid 14,500 a year. I've gone from earning nearly 40,000 a year living in London, having the time of my life, to now moving back with my parents, earning a very meager salary and with the positivity and the fun.
Speaker 1:John, just they just went away. They screen tested me for some interesting stuff, but then they scrapped the channel. So it was like we're gonna make you into a producer, and those producers have been around 10 years. They're earning 35K. So I still had this capitalist thing about me. I still wanted to be a high earner, high achiever, but I wanted the cool job as well, and they don't always go hand in hand. So I gave it a go and it didn't work. I went back to the city. The IT bubble burst. So then I left the city and my dad's always been a worker holic seven days a week, own business, since he had me when he was 21. So at that time so I didn't really see a great deal of him. So I think there was this thing about reconnecting with him a little bit. And all of my family are real blue collar, like hard work is the way.
Speaker 2:So where are you?
Speaker 1:from, so they're from London, and now we're just north of London in the home counties.
Speaker 2:But not like a different city in England.
Speaker 1:So I'm around. I grew up in a place near Watford, so if people follow their football then they have a Premier League team. So yeah, it's a pretty well known city. Hold on Watford, is that where Elton John is from? That's exact, and I went to the same school as yeah, I did, and George Michael actually used. He grew up a couple of roads away from me. Alison Moyer used to walk the dog with my late mother. We've had some some. I live in a Elton John bought the football team he did, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I read his book and I went on a crazy Elton John like I just listened to nothing but Elton John and I was learning the piano. Oh, you're right. So that's what I went for and I was just like that is yeah. Yeah, it's north of London, okay, but it's suburbs, yeah it's got some really cool history and it's.
Speaker 1:you know, it's an interesting place, isn't it? But it's home for me. So, yeah, I ended up retraining as an electrician to join my dad's company and I was all in, like I was doing Mid-20s. Yeah, it was about mid-20s and but all the while, sports has been a part of my life since I was five.
Speaker 1:I was a competitive swimmer that turned to martial arts. I was like national judo championships when I was seven, eight years old. Then I saw Karate Kid changed to karate, did that? Then my neighbor was a boxer and my dad was really into boxing and Barry McGuigan and like the Chris U-Bank era, I was a massive Naseem Hamad fan, switched to boxing, represented St Albans, then Hearts, beds and Bucks, but then none of my friends did do this, so then football's a big thing back home.
Speaker 1:I then went back to football, but all the while you know, fight sports, combat sports, is there bubbling away and whilst I was an electrician, I then I took Muay Thai, brazilian Jiu Jitsu, mma, and I was still part of the same team. Now I've been the team Crossface since about 2009,. David Lee and yeah, we put on a show, or Dave put on a show, and a woman came down to do like a little backstage reporter thing to cover the event and bless her MMA back then, even back then it's not that long ago, but she just had no clue and she kind of made a bit of a mockery of it. No clue about the sport, no clue about the sport and it, and I didn't like the way that she was kind of Talking to the athletes.
Speaker 1:These are savages in Well it's just a bit of a sort of joke here. It's not a joke so I didn't really blame her for it. But I turned around to my coach and said, look, you don't know this, but back in the day I harbored some intentions to be a presenter. Like I could do that. Let me do that. Said, well, I have no hold over the network is doing that. But what about commentary? And the interesting thing was when I was at the BBC they had like an apprenticeship scheme. But commentators in the UK they're different to the US, they're not seen, so they never do any rips on camera, they're lip mics, they're typically older and they sit in the stadium and you just hear their voices. So, like all sports, yeah, I never knew what the commentators look like growing up, for like a football game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could recognize their voices.
Speaker 1:Of course, but I didn't know their story, didn't know their thing and it wasn't the cool job. So when this was circulated it kind of piqued my interest and I thought, no, I want to be a presenter, because that looks like the traveling around the world bit, delivering information on camera and it's not the glitz and the glamour and the fame, it just it just felt more like what I was, what I would want to do rather than sit there. But there was like stats guys.
Speaker 2:I got you yeah.
Speaker 1:A guy called Motson who is very famous. Anyway, I said no to that, but then when this opportunity came around at MMA, I said yes. So I got a dictaphone. I still own it now and I just sat there one man booth you know 20 amateur fights in a night running around the backstage guys getting their hands wrapped like dude. There was no Facebook, youtube stuff really that was popping at the time to stalk people. So that was the information I was getting for the walkouts and it was a really steep learning curve but it was great right Like it's never going to get any harder than that right now, that's what I always thought when I was coming up.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm covering a high school cross country meat, right, I'm filming the start of the race and the end of the race. I don't know anything about any of these people, but I'm going to be forced to talk about it. Yeah, what better prep could you have?
Speaker 1:You, just you have to get down in the weeds and in doing so, I would. I didn't even this wasn't even by design. I thought I was doing something particularly special, but I would see a fight card. I'd see five guys from the same team. I'd call up the coach, say coach, can I come down and train with you? Because, remember, this is like amateurs or early pros so that was a similar level to where I was.
Speaker 2:That's a ball, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I would then jump on the mats and I would train with the guys that had fights coming up and then if anyone's trained and they know, like the culture of the gyms, you're then sweaty, bloody, sitting down on a map just shooting the shit. And that's when you really get to know people and I think, because I jumped in, you're going through it with people you get a little bit more respect. Maybe at the time people are open up to you.
Speaker 1:No question about it and you're in it. So I think the fact that I did that is always stuck with me and I still stayed in touch with some of the guys from back in the day and they and it's very lovely. I sort of forget that early part of my career, but it wasn't a career at the time.
Speaker 2:No right, it was just a hobby yeah.
Speaker 1:So I got noticed doing that by Graham Boylan, who owns Cage Warriors. Now he had his own show. He asked if I was freelance. I didn't even know what that meant. I did a show for him. He then acquired Cage Warriors. He brought me on board. I will always be indebted and grateful to him for that and I and I was then doing the Cage Warriors stuff and we got to a point where, by the way, I was still wanted the whole business thing to work out yeah.
Speaker 1:I was now married, let's say Right and my wife. I'm using all of our holiday time to go cool fights. Yeah, I was doing Cage Warriors and a couple of other shows as well. She's not getting a lot out of this. By the way, in and around this time I got a really bad back injury.
Speaker 1:A friend of mine died in a kickboxing match, so my ambitions to turn pro and compete they kind of went away A little bit by choice, a little bit taken away from me, which is always a big regret. But then, without getting too deep, it would have been very selfish of me to get in the cage and fight soon after one of our guys lost his life in a kickboxing match. It would have been, it just would have been too difficult for my friendship group. So, yeah, I then had to put my efforts into some other aspects of the sport and kind of, here we are. I was then jostling, calling fights and the electrical stuff. I got frustrated that there was no opportunities for a cage fighting commentator, as I was told in the UK. I don't think it's much different now, truth be told, in terms of the opportunities for someone like me if I wasn't with the UFC. So, yeah, I remember doing the O2 arena and then going to a building site the next day.
Speaker 2:You know it was fucking dark man.
Speaker 1:I was like what I've just? I'm meant to be good at this, but I still have to do like drills in the wall and like I'm like I'm clearly not good at what I do, because if I was good enough then the phone would ring and I'd have his opportunity. So it I stuck the course. Yeah, my wife stuck with me. God bless her. And here we are today.
Speaker 2:That's wild man. The O2 for a cage warrior show.
Speaker 1:No, the O2 2014. That was your first for you, manu Augustafson.
Speaker 2:So that was your first UFC, and then you went to work as an electrician the next day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was the biggest come down ever, I remember. I remember walking into the job because it's gray walls, there's no plaster on the walls, it's dusty, it's noisy, no one's happy to be there. First thing in the morning it was yeah, it's pretty bad, and I balanced it for about 18 months because I just I was doing three or three to five gigs.
Speaker 2:I didn't know how much work there was going to be. It wasn't.
Speaker 1:And we had inside the octagon which was helping, and that's when me producing stuff came up. So I kind of fell into that. And then you just increased Cause all I wanted to do is replace the salary Like I just want to earn the same amount of money as I was as an electrician calling fights. I was a little bit short at first, but I thought let's do it anyway, and let's go in and let's yeah, let's kind of cut the safety net and see what we can do so.
Speaker 2:when I started calling fights for the UFC contender series the first season, 2017, I had just been laid off. I'm a very similar story to yours. It's funny so. And then I called my first show in Fresno December Cub Swanson, brian Ortega and it was like a tryout right Like they knew they wanted to call me back, but it was kind of like a trial. I was just like is this guy going to work?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because Annick was elevated in the first role but we needed somebody else and Dan Haley was still with NFL network. So it was kind of like, how are we going to piece this together? And I was available and we moved out to Las Vegas and I said, in 2018, I don't know if I'm going to have four shows or 12 shows or more, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:And so I was all set up to get a job at like a strip mall casino out here as a slot manager and I called Fresno on a Saturday and then I was supposed to, on like Tuesday the following week, fly home Sunday and then on Tuesday of the following week I was supposed to go to new hire orientation and I would have been making, you know, not a lot of money to go in a smoky place where people are just pull the slot machine and drink some beers at the bar and play video poker and instead of being like on TV.
Speaker 2:You know, and I talked to Zach, our boss, on that Monday and he was just and he gave me like a couple more shows, whatever. And I told, I told my wife, I was just like I think I just got to burn this whole other job and just like I think it's going to be enough and so we'll go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it is crazy because, like you, can you know you'd be here? And then you're like, well, should I keep doing it? And it's like it's no, it's no, knock on. Like how the UFC runs their business. It's just like when you start out.
Speaker 1:Like you said, you have to take the risks a little bit. There weren't that shows around, and I remember there were people close to me saying this is a pipe dream, you need to give it up now and 2014,.
Speaker 2:Way different place in terms of the sport.
Speaker 1:We're not on.
Speaker 2:ESPN. No, we're on Fox, but it's not big, and it's certainly not big in the UK. It's overnight in the UK. Yeah, as far as this shows in the States, yeah, so it was.
Speaker 1:It was tough with my best, my best mate, willie B. God love him. He took me down off the ledge. I was in Abbots Langley on a building site, going dude, I can't do this to everyone anymore. I'm just going to fucking like say goodbye to this and I'm just going to like do the electrician thing proper and really kick on with the business and just say, no, you're so close, you're so close, you've got to stay with it. You're so close and actually people don't know this cage worries, let me go. So we got to October and they were like I was getting paid 250 pounds to call a cage worries event, but I would do like a podcast for them. I would. I would be writing all this, all the little scripts we were doing, do the weigh-ins, and that's four days is what can be four days away, 250 pounds, I was losing money.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we got to October and I called up Graham and said look, I want to do the show but I've run out of holiday time. Can you just give me an extra 100 pounds, because that's what I would earn, like on a building site, and I need to take something home to the wife. And he's like no, I might call you next year. I was like are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like I've been on this journey with you guys since like 2010,. 2013. Now we're onto something and you just like no. And it forced me to pick up the phone to the UFC and things started moving along internationally and, yeah, I got, I got opportunities and it just started to gather some speed. That's wild man.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm glad I have that story.
Speaker 1:I've been here for 10 years. Now Be my 10 year anniversary 20, 20, 24.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can't wait. We got to do something special. So I told the story on my podcast that I did in Singapore. I talked to Gilbert Burns and then I told the funny story about how I'm reading a great book called 4,000 Weeks and I have it at breakfast and you're like what are you reading? And then you look at it and then you're like you know what? It's a great book, it's 4,000 Weeks. I'm like John, that's the book. Like what are you the cover?
Speaker 1:was different the new edition.
Speaker 2:All this to say you're a reader and, like you said, you're a thinker and whatever, and it's like when did that happen and why did that happen? Where you get into kind of like personal development, self-improvement, non-fiction Cause I am very much into that but I wasn't a reader at all, like until I was like 33 years old or something. What is that journey for you of like I want to get better and I want to actively work on it.
Speaker 1:I think it's MMA, you know, I think it's being a martial artist. I really do Like I approach everything as training and upskilling. So one thing that I struggled with with the commentary and still do to a certain extent until this year, really cause I've had a lot of outings, but if I approach everything like a martial artist, I have to get to the gym twice a week to maintain. I have to get three times if I want to improve. Right, so I've got to be working the muscle.
Speaker 2:It's like a ledger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, otherwise you're just going backwards, right. Well, where's the training for commentary? Like I'm not picking up a mic in any other sport, or you know, the UFC have locked me in quite rightfully. There's reasons for it as well.
Speaker 1:So I can't work other shows or don't work other shows and I've put myself in the fire a few times in the last few years and I can see why they do that, and but then I feel uncomfortable with that, like how can I train commentary? And it's not the same sitting there on fight night, especially in the UK, cause it starts at midnight for us so you're going to get the worst version of me trying to be. You, mute you down and then just and no one's going to sit by my side.
Speaker 2:To me it never works to do that, unless you're like in college and you're like just trying to figure out the flow of the game, but once you're a proper broadcaster, like I, never turned down the volume and call along. It's a good idea in theory and it works if you're 20, just to like try to figure out your voice, but then it doesn't. It's tough to practice.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So then then there's all these other things and, as I say, because, much like you, you know it wasn't like this seamless jump from full-time gig decent amount of money, full-time gig still got a decent amount of money. There's all of these ups and downs and that's what makes it's never going to be easy. I've realized this over my years, you know, and it shouldn't be. If it was easy, it's not worth doing. There's no shortcuts Fuck me, there's no.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I have been through the mill in many different respects but it and to sound corny, and like every one of these books, it's just repackaging the same shit. But you kind of grow through what you go through, right, and you got to tread the boards. Tread the boards from like the very greenest level all the way through, because when you leap, even from cage warriors to the UFC and I don't mean I'm not putting cage warriors down, but I've gone from essentially calling fights in a bit of podcasting, so you know this hundreds of pre-prepared items and scripts to get you in and out of stuff and onto the next thing. The amount of prep and your you know the draw on vocabulary and verbiage is way different. And with that then you've got the attention right and I just struggled with a lot of it. You know like I got death threats when I first came through, like who's this guy? Yeah, the funniest one was I wish your mum would have swallowed. I thought that was funny. Hold on what?
Speaker 2:Oh, you're, yeah that was a good one right, what my wife?
Speaker 1:we laugh about it now. My wife actually sent me a Valentine's card with that on it a few years ago. Bless her, was it a tweet? Yeah, yeah, twitter was bad back in the day. Bowtie Belend, bowtie Wanker, like oh like yeah, it was really. It was rough because I wasn't used to it. I didn't, I hadn't been given the chance to grow the skin that, the hard skin, you know, the armory that we have to have now.
Speaker 2:Can't believe. Somebody tweeted that.
Speaker 1:I'm just I'm just, like this, innocent martial arts enthusiast.
Speaker 2:That's not a professionally trained broadcaster. No, that's trying to make a go of it.
Speaker 1:But I'm one of you as well.
Speaker 2:This is what was upsetting. Right, you're a fan.
Speaker 1:Because I was a fan and I'm part of the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that made you understand it a little bit better, though, because you'd be like gosh if somebody came on and they weren't very good at something that's important to me. Yes, Like that helped me a little bit in that, because I grew up a hockey fan and so you can spot fakes, yes, and then even if there's somebody that's not a fake, but you just they just don't do it the way that you like it.
Speaker 2:You're just like gosh. I love this so much. Stop ruining it. Yes, Even though that person loves what you love, the same yeah, and I did sort of, I sort of understood it. It doesn't excuse Well.
Speaker 1:I just thought that I did know what, and I do know what I'm talking about. Yeah, exactly, I know it inside out, like from the. I've never walked the board, I've never like done world titles or any of that kind of stuff, but I've been around it like a long time now. So even back then when I joined the UFC, I'd seen a lot of stuff in the sport so I it was my happy place. So now you're like what is going on? And then I thought that because of that I was getting that abuse. I thought that the UFC were only going to read that and I thought my career was done Right, and I'm like it's all over yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like I've done all of this, I've made all this sacrifice. My wife stayed with me. We've missed out on everything. I don't go to birthdays, I don't go to christening's weddings, funerals, bachelor parties, stag do is, whatever you want to call it. I miss them all. You know, and had been for a number of years, even before the UFC. And then you're like what was all of this for? So then you have to work on, work on what I can work on myself, like how do I deal with this and what else can I be doing to bridge the gap financially? What else can I be doing in my relationships?
Speaker 1:And you know, a lot of guilt came with leaving my dad's company, because a lot of it was built around my skill set. I was the kind of regulatory guy, I was the guy that was O-Fa with all the technology and my dad's. You know he's retirement age now and to ask him to pick that up was just too much and it was hard to find people. So, again, without his flexibility, I wouldn't have been able to see this opportunity through. So there's just a lot of stuff. So you start looking around, right, you speak to people or you read the books and with social media because I had a lot of time between shows. It just grabs you right and you end up going down rabbit holes. And self-improvement is not a bad thing, although I've gotten a little tired of it, I feel like it's very samey. But then we get into different parts of our lives, which is why the 4,000 weeks thing resonated. So there's that. Die with zero is the other one I told you.
Speaker 2:There's a good follow up.
Speaker 1:Just because now I'm starting to get some kind of foundation financially, it's like I need to make this work.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So having that kind of education as well. So it's sort of journey 4,000 weeks.
Speaker 2:It's one of those books I'm like 140 pages in and it's like I find myself kind of holding back on reading it more subconsciously, because I don't want it to end. It's 260 pages and I'm just like I'm going to be sad when this is over. I wish this book was 10,000 pages long. Pick it up. Whether I read it for five minutes or 15 minutes, I'm just like. It's like a new perspective. That's like crazy. I love that book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. There's another book that is a very different one. Oh, it's like Fastlane to Millionaire, because you know there's a lot of schemes out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:You know, you've got to be an FX trader, You've got to do this, got to do that. There's a book that this guy wrote. I'll send you the link to it because it's just interesting and it kind of debunks everything and just tells you where the real money's at.
Speaker 1:And if you want to earn the real money, this is the kind of stuff you want to do and, by the way, it's always boring shit. Right, it's the platform, it's the Amazon. You know what I mean. So unless you want to do that, then all this other sexy stuff is just BS. Don't waste your time. And it was good to again have something packaged in a way that just affirmant what I thought, but I'd still get seduced by the idea of back in, you know, five years ago, a little crypto stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just take the edge off here and get a vacation at the end of the year, but it's just honest hard work.
Speaker 2:You're always hoping to be on the right side of a bubble for once.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And you're, just like everybody else is on the right side of this bubble. Why can't I be on the right side of a bubble for once, and chances are not. A lot of people are on the right side of that bubble?
Speaker 1:No, it's all about compounding in everything we do, particularly with financial stuff, just compounding. As little or as much as you can, and that goes the same for your jujitsu journey. Consistency is key. Keep topping it up and doubling down and you'll get there.
Speaker 2:What is the theme or book or overarching thought that has stuck with you above many others? Because I have one. Jim Rohn has a quote. He says success is not something you pursue, it's something you attract by the person you become. And I was just like man. In like 20 words, that kind of really defines it. Like to go get something. You just you got to be that first. Yeah, and like it's not. Like oh, why is nothing working out for me? I'm chasing this and I'm chasing it. It's just like if you work on yourself first in whatever aspect is important to you, things will come to you.
Speaker 1:There's probably three little ones. I'm so bad at remembering that kind of stuff. But work hard and don't be a dick.
Speaker 2:That's a good one. I like that.
Speaker 1:Like it's real simple. All I've ever done is work really fucking hard in everything I do, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't feel prepared, unless I've probably flogged myself. I'm a little kinder to myself these days and also don't be a dick, and I'd like to think that I can, hand on heart, say that I'm a. I'd like to think I don't know. We all have our days as well, though, because we're in a high pressure environment.
Speaker 1:I've had it before where I think I was in Russia and my notes hadn't. I hadn't been out to the octagon, and we're two minutes away from the first walk and I've got no notes on the desk and I am freaking the fuck out. I'm like what, where are my notes? And I wasn't screaming and shouting at people, but in that moment, probably not the best John Gooden, you're ever gonna get. So there may have been some points, but I will always apologize to people and I'll make an effort.
Speaker 1:And I look around and see over the years how people have treated others and their self-awareness is shocking, and you think there's a reason why that's gonna follow you around, or you're not gonna get the opportunity, or whatever it might be, or maybe why I got the opportunity and that person didn't. So I can't justify it in quality. I can only think maybe it's because I've just been a little bit easier to hang around. So there's that. Then one thing that came through a few years ago when you think you're under the cost, a little bit like pressure is a privilege, like especially with what we do right it can get gnarly. Like I've got to organize.
Speaker 2:I was gonna ask you that do you feel a lot of pressure Cause some people? I don't know if I'm doing it wrong. I don't ever feel that much pressure.
Speaker 1:Good for you. No, that is a blessing.
Speaker 2:And I'm also glad to hear that you take less pressure on yourself these days, cause I've been around you. Sometimes, when I'm doing the desk, I can do Zealand and I remember and I'm just like John, I'm like you're going to do great man, you've been doing this for a long time. Chill out.
Speaker 1:I didn't say that to you, but I can just see your tension on the way to the show and I kind of have to apologize for that, because it's not good to have that person in the room. So there is an awareness because it's an energy, right, but it's not an energy in a bad way, it comes from a good place.
Speaker 1:I really want to represent myself and everyone very well, and I always feel like you can never do enough prep, but I'm learning. It's taken a long time, though. Do you know what I mean? I'm learning the best ways to go through it, but then I also do like these features shoots right, so I've got one coming up.
Speaker 1:And you go on a plane with a crew and you're working with sometimes some interesting characters who are cameramen. They're creative types and they are, a certain way, some of them and yeah, you're trying to make you're a team leader at this point. You're trying to make everything right for them. You've also got the athlete and I'm sympathetic to them, but then you've got the UFC that has paid for all of this and you've got to go back with the goods and that's a big pressure. I find that is more something.
Speaker 2:See, that is something that I don't deal with. So that's, there's an answer right there. Yeah, like you're, if I go do a feature shoot, like I think I'm supposed to interview Brendan Allen, I'm going to show up and like when we're in the States, we have crews that we use, so that I'm going to show up and sit down and talk to Brendan Allen and then that's that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and this is a thing Much different if you're the head of it. Well, this is so you're doing that, so I did this with, with all the guys that I've ever, if ever, you've seen one of my sit-ins, yeah.
Speaker 2:Tom Aspin.
Speaker 1:Right, so I will find the location. I will clear the location. I will go there with the camera crew. I will look at the shots. I'll help them. I'll physically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's much more involved yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll physically bring the sticks in the camera equipment, we'll sit there, look at it, and that's before. I've changed or looked at my notes about what I'm going to ask the athlete Right, and then I've got to. We're also probably shooting a main event feature at the same time Exactly.
Speaker 1:So I'm balancing. If we spend too long on this, then we won't get that. So it's project management. Yes, and I'm aware, and I'm not. I wouldn't want it any other way, but I know that you, john, and Megan, will be sat there and I don't get hair and makeup on those things or anything like that. Someone will probably be looking after you. Then you walk on and you only have to do your thing.
Speaker 2:I don't ask for hair and makeup.
Speaker 1:I don't get hair and makeup, but I you know what you're saying I go there with the intent to interview an athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's about where it ends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then and then. The other thing is all of that that you've just done ends up on a drive, a hard drive. You've got tens of thousands of dollars on a hard drive and just the anxiety that someone's going to spill a drink. The drive's going to go faulty. You duplicate it as well, but until I hand it over and it's been uploaded, I'm like.
Speaker 1:God, this is like so stressful. And then you've maybe had an issue on the shoot with a member of the team or someone's not like it's, it's a lot. And then you got to go call fights the next week. Right, right, right. So it's, you know it's. It's an interesting balance. So there is pressure, there's, but it's a privilege to be there.
Speaker 2:So I remember sitting on the desk at ESPN once and I'm hosting some like cut ins for a you know halftime show, some highlights, stuff like that on the desk and producers talking to me. He's just like, yeah, I understand you. I mean, you have a high stress job, you have a high pressure job, Whatever. I'm just like, I'm not stressed, I don't feel pressure. I'm up here talking about sports, Can't? We all have fun with this? And it's different things for different people. I've just always felt that way and but again, there's different scenarios. In that case, I'm not producing on like in the control room. It's much high pressure and high stress cause they got to have a whole circus full of a symphony of things that they have to get right, and my job is to put it into words.
Speaker 2:It's really only, it's a small piece of the whole puzzle. But, when you're leading a project like that, there is there's a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the and the other thing that I tell myself is you get to do this.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's where I usually start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm there, I'm in my office at home the comforts of my home is a nice office now as well and I sit there and you might. We all have our gripes about our respective jobs, right? I'm sure you've had to rewrite your deck of you know, prelim or main event main cards, like a bunch of times, and it's like, fuck man, I've done all that work and I've got to redo all of this. But like you get to do it, john, like 2013, when you were in limbo, this was a fucking dream. Now you get to have this problem. So it's just yeah, it's a realization, like the whole gratitude thing. I hate to kind of just say that.
Speaker 2:No, it is Like you say, like I'm starting to hit a point on the books where I'm just like I should read some fiction books for a few years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it is good to I actually did that. I actually started to read some fiction again. It's my wife's like you work yourself up as well, I know, cause it gets you fired up. It's not nighttime reading sometimes, cause my mind starts going.
Speaker 2:That's what I started doing at night. I've started reading fiction or unserious things, or whatever. I'm like I don't want to learn something and then sit on it and then have all these ideas like oh, cal Newport has this strategy for productivity. And you know it's like no, just let it freaking go, man, read some Harry Potter.
Speaker 1:That's what I've started. Oh, good for you. I live very near the Harry Potter studios.
Speaker 2:I read the first book and I remember thinking like this is kid stuff, but I'm like it's pretty well laid out in terms of the story.
Speaker 1:I see why it's popular.
Speaker 2:And now I'm on the second book, but it's like I read like two pages every you know two weeks.
Speaker 1:Like it's not like I'm ripping through it, but it's you know, yeah, when you become an addict and you have to go to the studios, it's in Watford WD. Well, there we go. I got to go see Elton John's piano at the train station that's up in North.
Speaker 2:London too, All right. Last thing, John a recent occurrence that has changed your perspective can be the smallest thing. What'd you last think about where you just thought about life because it just forced you to. I mean, it could have happened this morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nothing significant happened this morning, I'm afraid. So what was? There's a lot of the same kind of themes that come up, but I don't know. I don't know. I think I've just got a way more healthy appreciation for my wife and everything that she does for me.
Speaker 1:Things have been rough over the last. Well, since Elodie came around, she's been through it, bless her. My daughter had open heart surgery at a year old and we've got complicated family stuff, and my mum passed away, but she was troubled before that. And now, bless her, my mother-in-law has got an aggressive pool-z, which is like an Alzheimer's and Parkinson's blend, so she's in palliative care right now. So, then, my father-in-law's life has changed. My dad has. He's got a new life now and it's all so quick and you just sit there.
Speaker 1:But the one person that's gone through it all and just picks up the pieces and keeps our unit together whilst I travel around the world is my wife. So every time something challenging comes up, I go back to that and I look at how grateful I am because she could have walked away. It's not been all sweetly smelling roses With our work. It does put a lot of strain on, and I don't know if you try and seek counsel from people in our position, you leave. I know this is a sore point for you, because I've left at last.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but when you're on the road a lot, you're essentially walking away from the family unit. So then having that, and as you mature you start seeing these things for what they really are and the sense of community and your circle. So yeah, I come back to that a lot these days and I just try to express to my wife how very grateful and privileged I am. We've got a good thing going on now and things seem to be getting better and I seem to be able to handle shit a little bit better as a result as well. I know.
Speaker 2:Double thumbs up yeah, work hard.
Speaker 1:Don't be a dick and just work hard.
Speaker 2:What a great chat we just had. You know I was thinking to go along the lines of you just kind of paying homage to your wife and I don't know if I said that word right being grateful for your wife and all her roles and stuff.
Speaker 2:It's like I've realized this past summer this is all going to go away when we go decades down the line and it's going to mean like zero, but it seems so important, like on Fight Night, it seems so important and it is in one respect.
Speaker 2:And then so I've talked to you about Chris Hemsworth's series on Disney Plus, limitless, which is just like the best thing I've ever seen. And I just watched the last episode and I'm just thinking, like he checks into this retirement thing and the guy's just like, oh, I understand, you did a bit of acting. For those who don't know, they aged him 50 years and they put him in a retirement home and they tried to equal what his life is going to be like when he's in his 80s. And the person and the actors were like the ones who worked at this retirement community and they didn't break character at all. And so they sent him to his room and he had like some old pictures and he's like oh, I understand, you did a bit of acting. Oh, like you know some community theater and stuff like that, whatever, and it's just like Chris Hemsworth right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Worldwide superstar, superhero, whatever. And when he's in his 80s should he get there? It's like that's probably that's the reaction you're going to get from people, like when we're older. It's like, oh, you're on TV, that's cool.
Speaker 1:I know we're winding this up, but you might have a better memory of this and I'll ask you a few questions. What was your, what was your grandfather's name and what was his occupation? I?
Speaker 2:don't know what his occupation was. My dad's grandfather's name was John, and there you go From Dorchester right, and then my mom's, and he died when I was like two or three, so I never really knew him. And then my mom's dad died when I was seven. He was like a mill worker and their parents.
Speaker 1:do you know what their names were? I was thinking that's not that many generations you know. So the shit that we care about so deeply, I mean it feels bad to say it, but they're not going to fucking know what we, who we are, what we did.
Speaker 2:So Jimmy Buffett, right, just died, like within the last month or last month or whatever. It was Jimmy Buffett, margaritaville, worldwide icon for that lifestyle and his music and whatever. And he's going to get to a point like he gives a burst because he passed away. Everybody's going to listen to his music for a weekend, right, the same thing happened with, like, prince and Tom Petty. Everybody takes it as an excuse I'm going to listen, we got to listen, you know great. And then it goes a year down the line. It's just like, oh yeah, jimmy Buffett died or whatever. And then it goes like two or three years down the line and you hear one of their songs and you just go, didn't he die? It's like, yeah, I think he did die, didn't he die?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you look it up on Google and just, yep, yep, he died. He died in 2023. Oh yeah, I remember that. And then you just move on with your day. Yeah, and that's fucking Jimmy Buffett, or Prince or whoever else. So keep it in perspective, people.
Speaker 1:John very special chat.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to work with you this weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll be a fun one. Good cause, it's a great one.
Speaker 2:Good cause and I'm not going to be a dick and I'm going to continue to work hard Outta boy.