Decoding Battle Scars: Insights into Martial Arts, Military and Mind with Daniel Joseph

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What happens when an army veteran, psychologist, and author steps onto the mat? Join us as we unpack an intriguing conversation with Daniel Joseph about his exciting journey, exploring the intersection of military service, mental health, and martial arts. From the thrills of UFC to the grit of Jiu-Jitsu, we delve into his unique insights and how these powerful combat sports played a significant role in his life and the lives of those around him.

Have you ever wondered how the primal call to serve draws men into the military? Daniel shares his perspective on this intriguing aspect, pointing out the transformative power of service and the lessons he learned during challenging times. We analyzed the complex psychological effects of war on soldiers and linked how the discipline and control learned in martial arts could serve as a healing tool. We explored how leadership, self-reflection, and martial arts can foster healthier relationships and organizations.

Finally, we cut through the noise of our instant-gratification society, to explore the benefits of minimalism, humility, and calmness. Daniel shared his wisdom on how these qualities, which he learned from military leaders and martial arts, can act as a counterforce to the constant pressures of modern life. Join us for this deep dive into a fascinating world of grit, resilience, and personal growth. Don't miss out on this unique blend of life lessons, martial arts, and mental health discussion.

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Transcript

Fitz: 0:02

Hey everybody, welcome back to Fitz Nation. We'll get to our guest in just a few moments. His name is Daniel Joseph. He wrote a book called Backpack to Rucksack, talks about leadership, talks about his time as an army veteran, talks about psychology and it talks about raising awareness for suicide prevention, specific to our military veterans. September is suicide awareness month and obviously September 11th is a heavy date in the history of the United States and as it relates to our US military. So that's coming up in just moments, but of course I mentioned a few episodes ago.

Fitz: 0:28

You email me, I will get you included in the show. We can build a little community here known as Fitz Nation. This email comes from Jason Hagholm, and Jason is a veteran veteran veteran. Jason, I have seen you out there on Twitter or X. You definitely follow along and you tend to take a screenshot of the broadcast team at the beginning of UFC events and you share. This is our broadcast team for the night. So, jason, I've been aware of you out there on X, but thank you for emailing in and I'll read it here.

Fitz: 0:59

My name is Jason Hagholm and I'm an aspiring sports broadcaster myself stumbled across your Fitz Nation podcast, episode 143, and felt it was the most relatable piece of video I have seen all year. Thanks for your three tips on getting to be a network broadcaster. I've completed two. I have two degrees in broadcasting, in both television and broadcast journalism, as well as a YouTube account where I do interview MMA fighters. You also gave me something to think about. With what I'm trying to figure out and what I've learned recently, I'm jotting down three disciplines to try and follow as we speak. Your podcast has been a breath of fresh air for me, as I found out that you are also someone who is sober, like myself by choice. One day, I would love to pick your brain on a podcast as well. Keep up the great work with the UFC and enjoy calling Surrey City on your Tuesdays Day in the White Contender series. That is. That kid is going to be a force coming from Canada. Thanks, jason, jason. Thank you for the email. Surrey City, as I sit here on Wednesday, the podcast is going to be a force coming from Canada. Thanks, jason, jason, thank you for the email. Surrey City, as I sit here on Wednesday. This episode will come out the next week, but Surrey City, man. What a big win, early stoppage. I think that needs to be acknowledged and I'm glad that Ramon Tavares is getting another shot. But Surrey City looked great. He looked the part. He obviously trains with a great team up there in Ontario and Mike Malott is a training partner of his from time to time. So it will be interesting to see Surrey City's entry into the UFC Band to make division what he does.

Fitz: 2:35

Jason, I'm glad that that episode resonated with you. Keep working those disciplines, keep working towards those things that I mentioned. That will get you on the path to be a network broadcaster. Maybe one day we'll be holding a microphone next to each other on some big time TV network. In the meantime, if you have a question, email me at Brendan Fitz TV at gmailcom. I got a great question recently from a guy named Richard over in the UK. It's about fight calls on broadcast, the mechanics of it, our moment when we watch the Korean zombie retire and kind of have those those moments to really soak it in and let the viewer soak it in where none of the broadcast team was talking. And also we asked about my favorite UFC calls, whether it was me, whether it was John Anik, other people, and I'll have a great episode coming up where I include the footage, include the video and kind of talk through it from a broadcast perspective. So keep those questions coming, brendan Fitz TV at gmailcom and I'll get them on the air.

Fitz: 3:39

And Jason, thank you for your email this week. Now it's time for our guests to the week. Let's get to our interview. September is Suicide Awareness Month and this episode is being released on 9 11. So of course, that means a lot to people in the United States. It means a lot to the members of our military, and my guest today is an author and a psychologist and an army veteran by the name of Daniel Joseph, and he has an interesting story. It's not just any other military stories. So, daniel, thanks for coming on the show and I'm happy to talk to you today, man.

Daniel Joseph : 4:14

Thanks so much for having me. Man, this is an honor. It's so cool Gonna talk to you and getting a voice. You know it's. It's neat. Yeah, it's really neat process.

Fitz: 4:22

Also, what's your jujitsu belt?

Daniel Joseph : 4:25

Well, so technically still a white belt, Okay, been a white belt for like I think five years, six years. But when I roll, people are definitely like, hey, dude, yeah, that's the wrong belt color, but yeah, I'm in no rush to get it changed. I what I took off for the army for like three and a half years, so I stopped rolling with my coaches and then while I was in the army, I did get to train with some dudes. We had little COVID underground fight club. Yes, pretty rad.

Daniel Joseph : 4:53

So, and what was really special about those moments and I know your viewers, who who were rolling, because you know, during those times you got to keep the tribe healthy, you know and what was really special is you got to be so picky about who you rolled with during those private roles, right, and so we had these one on one sessions, man, where these dudes would just wreck me and build me up, and they taught me about rolling blindfolded, they taught me about proprioception, they taught me about just so much dude, and these one on one relationships. And a buddy of mine, I just rolled with them the other day at victory Shout out to Eric, he, he's a black belt in judo and he's a black belt in jujitsu and he took me under his wing. Man, we started doing like 90 minute marathon rolls, Wow breaks, just nonstop. So think about how much data was downloaded into the my brain as a white belt on not spassing out, breath control and just this dude's massive, Eric's huge, and he would just crush me but like just enough where I wouldn't have to tap out.

Daniel Joseph : 5:53

You know what I'm saying. So he just it really up my game a lot. So belt colors, be damned, dude. I can roll now and not panic and just handle stuff. You know, not not trying to be like disrespectful to upper belt murder anything, but it's just. We can talk about this, but there's so much to the mindset of fighting and grappling that I had no idea until I started training like that, you know.

Fitz: 6:14

Yeah, what's crazy, dan, is that and it's very appropriate to our conversation today is that I got back on the mat literally yesterday, from when we're talking right now, for the first time in a year, and that last year was like an isolated class for the first time since like early 2020 pre pandemic. I basically took the pandemic off for a list of reasons, but you know, I got to a point where I kept saying, no, I'm going to get back to it. I'm going to get back to it. We had a baby last year and he just turned one and I was like, okay.

Daniel Joseph : 6:44

I'll get back to it.

Fitz: 6:45

And now I'm just, like the time is now my older son's back in school, like I do have some time. If I don't do it now, it's just going to be one of those things that I keep kicking the can down the road. Also want to shout out your book that you were kind enough to send me backpack to rucksack, and you know I had called contender series last night, so I haven't haven't had a ton of time to dig into it, but the early part that I did is fantastic. I can't wait to like just dive into this book about leadership in the military and a lot of things that you've learned from other great military leaders. But something that jumped out at me, dan, is that you joined the army at 32 years old, as you describe it. You kind of had a cush job in San Diego comfortable living, luxury apartment and then at 32 you decided to join the army. What happened and why did you do that?

Daniel Joseph : 7:37

So I am man. A lot of this does have to do with like jiu-jitsu and what happened in my life, just based on the community of people that I met. But I started making friends with a bunch of badasses in the military. I write about them in the book. Some of them are Navy SEALs, some of them are Mars Marsock operators and the Marine Corps Green Berets. So I was working with the EODs just these awesome dudes that were deploying, like with a super high op tempo going, going overseas, and I, my family, is actually from Iraq they escaped back in the 70s and so not a pretty situation.

Daniel Joseph : 8:09

And while I was in San Diego I was working in the biotech world. So I was working in basically it was pre like AI, it was neural network programming. So I was working with scientists that were coding computer algorithms to assess human genetic code for biomarkers and disease parameters that you could essentially snip out. You know, bad genes from a fetus if, depending on, well, a blastocyst, when it's a certain amount of cells, you can take some cells out and do some engineering to cure disease. So I was in this world where I mean it was lucrative, there's a lot of money, it's. It's a pretty esoteric world to navigate, and so I was able to speak both biology and computer science was able to to get some deals going that were pretty cool. But while I was doing all that, my buddies were coming back from the Middle East right and they're telling me these stories of these firefights they were in and nearly losing their lives and just fighting for, basically selflessly, what I perceived it was they were fighting for.

Daniel Joseph : 9:09

They didn't owe anything to you know, and they're telling me about how, hey, I was pinned down in a firefight, thinking about my wife and kids, not knowing if I was gonna come back and see them.

Daniel Joseph : 9:18

And I'm sitting there like collecting these, these checks, you know, and but then I feel that primal energy, that that dude, that just that masculine drive that they had to keep fighting, keep going back there, facing fear and shooting back in the midst of it.

Daniel Joseph : 9:35

And I was looking at myself in the mirror, especially as I was doing more jujitsu, like you know, I I want to see what, what I made of outside of just writing emails and networking. You know there's and I liken it just to this this primal call and if you feel it, you know what I'm talking about, because I have guys reaching out to me telling me about how they feel it, even at their age right, even in their 30s. And I was getting close to that cut off of joining and I thought, do I got a jump man? I got to leave everything behind and go do this because if I don't all regret it the rest of my life, and I was just so inspired by these guys to say that I put on a uniform at some point. I didn't care what I would do, as long as I could say that I served you know, it was just on my heart big time.

Fitz: 10:19

Wow, I'm reading a book by a guy named light Watkins right now and it's about meditation. He's like a meditation teacher, but he talks about your heart voice. It's like literally like you got to quiet everything down and then live with integrity for like what you truly want. It sounds like you just had this urge to serve in the military.

Daniel Joseph : 10:40

Yeah, it was. It was deep man and it was one of those things where, you know, and like it, the word primal just resonates so deeply because on the mats that's what was coming out. Do you know what I'm saying? Like that aggression, that fight, flight, response, the adrenaline and that trust for those brothers on the mats to, you know, be able to choke me out and if I pass out, they're gonna revive me. It's just putting my life in their hands.

Daniel Joseph : 11:02

To that extent, to that level, and a lot of these dudes are in the military, you know, and I I roll at victory, jocco willing stairs. So there's a lot of team guys of you know, all different branches that show up and just a group of badasses and they, they taught me what they're like, their discipline, right, the discipline they live on the mats, the discipline they live at work. Again, the op tempo and the battle scenarios that they're willing to enter into and come back and just Be these humble guys. Man, they weren't, they wouldn't brag about it, they were quiet and and getting to train hand-to-hand with these dudes on the mats was like it was feeding a part of my soul that I had left Unaddressed for so long and in younger years I had self-medicated down. You know the drugs and alcohol, the partying it was all just a process of trying to put out like a fire, if you will. But what sucked about that is? I needed that fire, you know it's.

Daniel Joseph : 11:55

And I tell dudes this now, especially young guys joining the military or who are in the military right now. I tell them, like, don't ever apologize for your aggression, because I feel like this world kind of tells us to be ashamed of aggression. And I tell them don't be, don't be ashamed of it, throttle it. Just like a black belt teaches us how to throttle the amount of violence on the mats, right, they teach us how to escalate it, how to down regulate it. But if we need to bring it, then we will, right, it depends on the scenario. You do it appropriately, but you certainly don't apologize for it. And so I think I see this just beautiful synergy between martial arts and Leadership the military and just being dudes in general, and I believe it's a lost art, you know, to have that tribal connection with one another and to not apologize for it.

Fitz: 12:37

Yeah, how did Changing your lifestyle of joining the military? How did it change who you were? I?

Daniel Joseph : 12:46

Mean the military introduces the concept of austerity in such a big way. You know, you're stripped of everything. You're stripped of caffeine, of Smartphones, of societal comforts, of a bed I mean you have a cot but it's. It's so cool because you get to know yourself. You know it sucks in a lot of ways, but it sucks together with a group. There's that brotherhood that builds and it's.

Daniel Joseph : 13:10

It's amazing because you know you can be in a horrible situation. Right, it's miserable, the weather sucks, whether it's freezing or if it's just blistering hot, and they do such a great job of sensory or not sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, hunger, all this stuff, right. And so you're sitting there, miserable, wondering why you signed the contract, but then the dude next to you cracks a joke. So you go from being like sulking and just pissed off to like busting up, laughing and you realize, right there, what that guy is doing Is, right there, what that guy's sense of humor did. It showed you that even in the midst of a horrible situation where you're totally just bummed out, you can still be yourself like fully. Nobody can take that away. So it, by stripping everything away, stripping all the excess, it boils down to your core sense of self, and that's what the military Just a brilliant job of.

Daniel Joseph : 14:01

And it got to a point where you know we'd go on leave right after basic training and then OCS and stuff like that, and you'd go home and you know, you just look at the beach, right, and you're stoked, like absolutely stoked, that there's ocean waves and you can be there with flip-flops and board shorts, right, no shirt, no, just nothing with you. And in that moment you're you're just pumped about life because you learn to appreciate the littlest things, and that's a concept that just kind of flourished after being in the military as well, and I didn't expect it to, I really didn't expect it to stick with me, um, but it has. And that's one of the coolest things ever is you just you become more of a robust human being Because you know what it's like to live with nothing. Yeah, that's, that's how they train us.

Fitz: 14:50

Yeah, you acknowledge everything that is and that isn't the. The daily gratitude is obviously this concept that is not exclusive to military, but I would imagine, like you said, your experience kind of puts it in perspective every day with, with what you deal with, and then Early in the book you you have your friend, austin, I believe was a Marine, who wrote an introduction to it.

Daniel Joseph : 15:17

Yeah, man, and he talks a lot about.

Fitz: 15:21

He walks. He talks a lot about the why don't like lead? True leadership is is giving them the why. Don't just tell him what to do. Give them the why. What is your why right now, daniel?

Daniel Joseph : 15:31

So my why is because of Austin and Cody predominantly, and I'll tell you Specifically what happened. So Austin, he wrote about this in the forward. It's so hard to say, bro, it's so hard to fathom this, but one at the time I wrote this book, 12 guys from his unit, from after, after after after Afghanistan man, 12 guys from his unit committed suicide. The 13th guy killed himself after I published my book. And Austin could, could have been on that list. So I'm still in touch with them, man, we talk every week, if not every other day, and Still check in on him, right and so that that's an unimaginable burden that he's. He carries Losing double digits to suicide, double digit brothers and arms. Man, it's just the concepts crazy to me. And so he inspired me to write the book. And as well as Cody, who wrote the intro, cody is my soldier who, for my platoon, from first platoon he survived his suicide attempt and writes some words of encouragement. But the why Was so? When I wrote the book I hit moments of self-doubt, because I talk about self medication, I talk about shameful stuff that's happened to me or that I've done, and you know ego deficits that I've had and Compensatory mechanisms that I used to feel like somebody you know faking, like I'm strong, putting up a facade, all this stuff, right. And when I got to some points where I was pretty, pretty bummed out about the book, like I can't believe I'm writing this stuff, I'm putting this on paper, this is crazy. And then my buddy, he asked me what's the why? Remind yourself what was the why of why you wrote this book. And I said to process a lot of the weight of what these guys carry, because I feel it too, because I love these dudes you know, they're like brothers of mine, right, and I Was never combat deployed, I was in the non-deployable unit, but these guys did deploy, right, and so I'm walking alongside them as they're. They're carrying all this weight and I feel it, man, and so they're. They're the why behind what I'm doing right now. And I can tell you what was so cool, what started this whole thing. And I have another friend of mine, dear friend of mine, who not only was he suicidal but he struggled with, with being homicidal man. He almost, he almost, killed a couple people when he got back from war because he was so desensitized to the bodies and to the, the gore and everything he saw that the man, the pressure was insane, right, and so he almost snapped very close, had a loaded weapon, had the plan, had plastic laid out on the floor, everything. And these are guys I'm supposed to lead, right. That's to me a joke, almost, because Talk about warriors, right. I mean, think about the type of men they want to be led by, right. So there I was with these dudes and you know, I started talking to them. It was a completely side sidebar discussion.

Daniel Joseph : 18:29

On jujitsu, I've had my own anxiety, right, especially when I started sobering up dude, a lot of stuff started surfacing and in jujitsu I started having these flashbacks. I started having these manifestations in my body of some past events and my coach noticed, coach was just like what are you doing? Why are you freezing up? Why aren't you doing the move? I showed you right and I had no idea, but it was a freeze response. So I was talking about the, the physiological manifestations of this constriction in the chest heaviness on my gut, hyper vigilance, ruminating thoughts, feeling like I was being hunted by somebody, just this crazy feeling of like something's out to get me right.

Daniel Joseph : 19:06

And and I was as I was sharing the story, man, there's a guy we're having some scotch just chilling. I was meeting a couple soldiers and One of them started tearing up and I look at him, this dude's a badass like this dude's, complete badass to me. I really look up to him. He started tearing up and I was like dude, what is happening? And he said hey man, everything you just described about your body, what you felt in jujitsu, I felt that since I got back from Iraq and I didn't really have words for it till right now.

Daniel Joseph : 19:37

Mm-hmm and he I mean we both Teared up and cried, bro. It was, it was an intense moment and he said, like, can I tell you some stuff that I've never told anyone? Can I tell you some stuff that you know my wife doesn't know, never told a therapist? Things that you know a guy like me would never share? About combat? That was deep dude, that was really profound.

Daniel Joseph : 19:59

I was honored and it was heavy and and I love this guy, you know I love for each other grew even more from that day, because once you see eye to eye like that, bro, it's just like You're connected man in a cool way that is indescribable and it's so rare to find. You know, and they inspired me to kind of move forward and have a discussion with other people that are stuck in their own head, that are stuck in their memories of what happened in the past. Right, and I don't want anybody to feel like that, especially having a soldier that I almost lost to suicide. I have countless friends who told me don't take that for granted, because we know plenty of guys who didn't survive suicide, and that includes Austin. And so the message here is man, just for these dudes to not only just have hope, because that's such a canned response, right, just maintain hope. But it's more of like work out that hope, whether it's on the mats in Jujitsu, whether it's self enrichment in another way, just finding a brother and letting him know what's going on. But it's such a difficult journey because not a lot of dudes are going to trust other people like this, right, and so I feel for them and so I just want to normalize what they're going through.

Daniel Joseph : 21:13

And if they don't want to talk about it because they don't want a spotlight, you know, and they don't want to relive the tragedies over and over again, then what's my part in helping them? That's where I find my values just being a guide to them. And they've asked that of me, and of course I'm going to do it. Man, of course, dude, any day if they need me, I'm there. So not really sure what that's going to look like, other than getting to have these awesome conversations with guys like you who are super cool and super willing to let me talk, man. It's rad and I'm blown away, like on behalf of the soldiers. Dude, thanks for listening. You know it's cool, yeah.

Fitz: 21:52

Well, you know, you reached out to me, to you know, and I was like you're kind of the story and the stories that you're connected to in the book is like something that's super valuable and it links up with, you know, september 11th and September being Suicide Awareness Month.

Fitz: 22:10

Now, for you who, like, entered the military and, as you said, you weren't deployed and so obviously it's impossible for any of us to put ourselves in the shoes of people that were deployed and that did experience war in that way, but for you, who carries gratitude with you each day because of what the military kind of takes from you in terms of day to day comforts and then the ability to breathe fresh air at the beach in San Diego, and just be extra grateful for it because you know what it means, how do you put your finger on or describe guys that come back from war that carry the demons that are seem to be, in a lot of cases, stronger than a sense of gratitude for not being in war anymore? Right, guys that do have families. I bet all the time that they were deployed they were like I can't wait to get home to my wife and kids, I can't wait to get home to my loved ones. And then they get home and there's still those demons that tug on them quite strongly. How do you explain that?

Daniel Joseph : 23:12

So this is like. This is why I love psychology, bro, I mean. So I work towards my masters and psych during the lockdowns to understand these concepts, because it's so complicated, it's a constellation of variables. So some people told me several friends have told me in the military that in a war zone they've never felt more pure love in their life and if they could, they would live in a war zone. I've had some of them tell me if I didn't have a wife and kids, I would live in that war zone because yes, it was heavy and yeah, there were lives lost and it came with a huge price. But at the same time they said they've never felt a greater sense of love for their brother than in those areas and it's because all they cared about was knowing that they made it back from their patrols right, that those convoy movements didn't lead to a fatality, that everybody was back in one piece and I mean that literally in one piece. And so while that's going on, right, this sense of connection with one another and that mission, right, because they're going to do everything they can to succeed and survive and make sure everyone that they're with is alive.

Daniel Joseph : 24:24

The hypervigilance is where the psychology comes in. They're constantly. Their radar is going off day and night. I mean, they're sleeping through mortar rounds coming in. You know, they're always on standby for bad news Every time there's an explosion way out in the distance and they feel that percussive wave or they hear that they're like who just died? Which one of our guys just got hit? I mean, this is constantly on their mind, right.

Daniel Joseph : 24:50

And so, in a training environment, we trained in very similar situations to what they experienced in war. I was in a desert environment. We'd have detonations out in the desert, we'd be war gaming and have, you know, uavs and jets and all the stuff going on 24 hours, right. And so my colleagues, these dudes who've been in the war, would be next to me and let me know hey, man, I'm in the middle of what was a flashback. They wouldn't say it like that, but they'd say like hold on, something's coming up right now, give me a second. They'd look around and be like I'm back in Afghanistan right now, dude, because they'd look at the dirt bank. This is the exact dirt that was in Afghanistan. These mountains look exactly like the ridge line in Afghanistan and I would be looking at them like, all right, bro, I'm going to give you a moment. You know I'm going to let you chill for a second and we'll carry on with the mission, right? And that would just compel me to be that much more considerate of the weight these guys carry, because it would happen so abruptly like they wouldn't know it was going to happen. Do you know what I'm saying? It would just kind of sneak up on them, yeah, and then, not to mention.

Daniel Joseph : 25:55

So war is complex enough, right, being at the right time in the right place with the right weapons and engaging the enemy and not, you know, hitting no friendly fire and all of that. Sectors of fire, all that stuff is super complex. You throw in a toxic leader, you throw in somebody that they can't stand, who's attacking them psychologically on top of the enemy attacking them, and that's happened then. And you see the rage, you see that level of I don't want to just say hate, because I don't want to make it sound like it's an emotional thing, it's more of just their desire to be protected from that is huge and they will fight violently against that stuff. And so, as a leader, it was so important for me not to push these guys To be sensitive for things that they weren't even willing to feel. Because self-disclosure about the past is heavy, man, it's super heavy, and it just I was so motivated by them to be considered about what was going on in their inner world as they were fighting it and the self-medication would be high with some of them man. Some of them needed eight glasses of scotch to go to bed regularly. You know that impacts you as a leader when you know that because you want to push people right, you want to stay tactically sharp and you want to always push hard, but at the same time you got to let them decompress, even when they don't know it. Oftentimes they don't know. They don't know they have to decompress. They don't know that they're on the edge right now, that their fists are clenched in the middle of a conversation because they just want to knock a guy's head off.

Daniel Joseph : 27:27

But this is the beauty of Jiu-Jitsu and MMA and martial arts dude you read your opponent right away, like one of my favorite black belts that I know. He's all about the black belt. He's awesome, dr Luke, shout out to him. He tells me that, based on a handshake, it'll dictate the level of violence with which he has to react to an opponent. If somebody's crushing his knuckles. He knows how to break their hand, wrist, elbow up to their shoulder, right, he's not going around breaking people's bones, but in his mind he's aware that if it needs to escalate to that, he can take it right.

Daniel Joseph : 28:02

But he taught me that you feel out your opponent. You look at their eye contact, look at their posture right. Look at their aversion to eye contact and where their hips are and how. All the setup of the fight, right. Who's going to strike first?

Daniel Joseph : 28:16

All of that, well, that applied in the military all the time, because I'd be talking to someone and if they were super darty with their eye contact, if they were rigid, right, if it's basically a dude that I wouldn't want to roll on the mats with in that moment, I would know to watch my tone of voice, to watch how aggressive I'm being, how much I'm pushing them, so I'd be able to say, hey, man, we're going to put a pin in this conversation, we'll come back to it, I'll give you a second.

Daniel Joseph : 28:40

And it wasn't patronizing like, oh, I know you're being emotionally reactive right now and I wouldn't do that because that's wrong to make him feel like that, but just like a black belt, just like an upper belt would say hey, if you're going to spaz this much, we're going to chill for a sec, take a breath, do a quick reset. It was that kind of concept and it worked A lot of times. They would notice, man. They'd notice like, hey, you stop pushing me, you weren't being a dick, you weren't being condescending, you gave me some space.

Daniel Joseph : 29:08

They appreciate that, because how many other dudes would see that and say, oh yeah, you want to fight, you're going to talk like that, you're going to act like that, not knowing that this dude is just reflecting on a guy that got blown up in back in war because we're on a demo range right now. We detonated some C4 and then, immediately when he felt that wave, he's just thinking like, yep, I'm thinking about my buddy that I lost, right. So these are the layers of awareness I want new leaders to have when they go in, and I also want every new leader who joins military to do Jiu Jitsu, because I think that's really, you know, enable them to be aware of this stuff. It gives you a different, spider sense, you know.

Fitz: 29:48

Yeah, and way more valuable mentally, it sounds like, than physically.

Daniel Joseph : 29:53

It's both yeah.

Fitz: 29:54

it's both yeah, mentally yeah, and that's I mean obviously if you find yourself in a difficult position in hand-to-hand combat, a lot of people will say Jiu Jitsu is the best weapon to have right, instead of being a great striker type of thing. It's just like no Jiu Jitsu, you can subdue no matter where the fight goes, type of thing. But like mentally for guys that are going through stuff guys and girls.

Daniel Joseph : 30:16

Yeah, what's cool, man, is how married the mind and body are. And again, we can talk about this for days. But that's the philosophical approach to Jiu Jitsu that was so astounding to me and Dean Lister is one of my coaches and you know I was talking to Dean about the concept of Jiu Jitsu helping me with my anxiety and my fear and my stress in life and I had a really rough patch in life and Dean gave me some awesome words of encouragement that when I was considering like taking some time off Jiu Jitsu, he pulled me back in and you know we talked about the spiritual journey of Jiu Jitsu. We talked about how it's a much richer concept than just learning how to fight and grapple right, because you got to be so aware of your nervous system and your ego and what you're bringing to the mats, because they always say the mats don't lie, like it's going to come out. If somebody sees disrespectful behavior, that knee of justice, that shoulder of justice, whatever it is, they're going to smash my throat, they're going to smash my face and check me right and I'll hopefully respond positively and grow from that, because I've needed it, you know. But also the concepts they teach us on the mats. It all applies in real life, in the world outside the gym, it applies in leadership, it applies in the military, because it's all about recalibrating your perspective.

Daniel Joseph : 31:36

One of my favorite coaches, james, tells me that he tells us there's no such thing as a bad position in jujitsu. Work the position, don't fret, don't throw your hands up and give up, don't tap out. Work through it. What can you modify? How can you reangle yourself? How can you just sip air and not get it, not black out. Just create enough of a defense on your throat to sit there and wait for the guy to get tired and then shift his weight and then, boom, you grab that next move.

Daniel Joseph : 32:05

So all these concepts, man, when things were rough in the military, when it was 127 degrees in the desert and we're in full kit and we're lost and we're on horrible terrain, running out of fuel and water. So there's moments where I'm like, all right, I'm gonna take a breath before I try to talk to a commanding officer and say something disrespectful, and then, you know, re-center myself and the soldiers would see it. Man, soldiers would go like, hey, sir, I thought you were gonna lose your mind. It's like, do you think I'd be texting a black belt. It's like, bro. Thank you so much, bro Like you just saved me, man.

Daniel Joseph : 32:36

You saved me because this stuff's applying off the mat dude.

Fitz: 32:39

You know it's crazy how little it takes to kind of understand those concepts. Like I told you, like I've done one class in the last year and Michael Bisping would give me a ton of shit if I start talking about like, oh, all those lessons that I've learned in jujitsu, because I was on the mat for like an hour and a half, right. But I do remember an experience from a couple of years ago when somebody had me in a rear naked choke and they were close right, like it was about tap time and I felt like air coming out of my eyeballs type of thing, right, like you just feel a different way. But I didn't and I was just like, well, I'm not out yet, let me try. And sure enough, we kept going, like I didn't have to tap, I got out of it, let go.

Fitz: 33:17

And the feeling on the other side of that is like it opens a door. It opens a different type of door. And same thing yesterday where somebody kind of jerked my shoulder and I was like if that happened, like around my house, I'd just be like, ah, it probably let me ruin my next half hour. But in jujitsu I was just like the role's still going and sure enough it didn't hurt. A minute later it was just like ah, it kind of feels good, right, you know, your body gets worked out a little bit For those who aren't in the military and many people that are listening to this aren't in the military, maybe not directly connected to the military what do you hope that people, civilians, get out of the stories that you tell and the lessons that you share, both from your book and otherwise?

Daniel Joseph : 34:02

Basically self-reflection. That's the biggest thing, that's the biggest part of this book is to be open to modifying your perspective. Be open to looking at your ego, deficits, especially as a leader, and what you're projecting on others, what you're asking other people to carry Because in the military we have rucksacks, right, and we have these weighted rucks where you've got to have a certain amount of weight, you have a certain hit time, you've got to get through that distance. Well, why would you put extra weight? They say ounces are pounds, so if you add an extra ounce to your bag, you might as well add an extra pound, because that's how it's going to feel after mile 12, right? So the same concept with leadership and just with relationships in general. The more hangups we have individually, the more we're struggling with whether it's pride or just a variety of anger issues, passive aggression, anything else. The people that interact with us have to feel that weight. They're going to feel it, and so the healthier we are as individuals, the healthier systemically we're going to make organizations, our teams, our units, our friendships, marriages, whatever it is. They'll, across the board, elevate, because we've worked on an internal issue with ourselves, right? So that's kind of the big take home of this book Because a lot of the guys I write about.

Daniel Joseph : 35:19

They showed me where I needed to grow in life and I would take nuggets of advice from each one and that's kind of what I strung together to make this book was every piece of advice they drop it really resonated with me in a deep way and showed me, dude, I have an issue and I got to fix it Because everyone else I'm dealing with in life is going to have to be impacted by my kind of unawareness if I don't rectify that. And as leaders we learn very clearly in the military the more rank you have, the more cultural influence you have and that command climate it's only as healthy as you are. If you have an unhealthy boss as an individual, as a human being, like outside of uniform, it's gonna translate to work Just the culture that they create, the persona that they bring in the office, and it's gonna be pervasive. Everyone's gonna feel it, it's gonna trickle down. But if you have someone healthy, who's grounded, who's level-headed and humble and approachable, dude, it makes the unit so it makes it awesome to go to work Like, not just average.

Daniel Joseph : 36:22

It makes it awesome because people you feel like an adult, you feel inspired. You have autonomy, you can do stuff. You can fail and not feel ashamed of that, because this leader has your back. It's an indescribable feeling. Especially and I'll end it with this it's just in a military environment, because you can't just escape it. You can't just. There's some bases, there's some environments where you're stuck in that and that's a whole another level of man. Just yeah, it's just another level. That's hard to explain to civilians. When your back's against a wall and whoever that person you're with, that's all you have. You have nothing else except for the people around you. So again, when they're healthy, that's awesome, but when you're trapped with people who are not healthy, it gets dark fast. So it's so important to not be that guy. Be the person that brings light to the situation, you know, yeah.

Fitz: 37:14

What is? What are your thoughts on, like, modern day life outside the military and things that might be going against those concepts that you just teach of, because, like, there's a lot of unhealthy things out there that are the conventional way of life. What are your thoughts on, like small tweaks to make it better, or something that you wish could be a bit different, about how our society is, by and large, day to day?

Daniel Joseph : 37:49

Yeah, I mean the biggest thing and I still struggle with this man being a creature of comfort. Instant gratification, self-medication these are all issues that are pervasive in society today, and we look at anything from social media and porn to alcohol consumption, drug use just there's so many different things that people use as an escape and it's really important to be honest with ourselves about what we wanna trim out of our lives, and I look at it as make small, incremental improvements. You know, you don't have to do anything too drastic. There's this really cool psychology study where they showed if you take somebody's remote control away from their TV and they have to get up and walk to the television to change the channel. This was like, I guess, back in the day.

Daniel Joseph : 38:30

So you show that those people lost a significant amount of weight Only by removing their remote. It opened up so many different options and so many different perspectives. Just by having this to get up off the couch and walk toward, they'd get up and go exercise. They'd get up and go do something else. So what this study was trying to demonstrate was don't go outright and make a massive change to your life, Because that's not gonna last, right, it's more about thinking and customize and personalize this to yourself. Where are some small areas in our lives individually that we can modify and tweak that to make it better? But it's all about countering the instant gratification type concepts in our lives, because dopamine right now is just off the charts with what's happening with smartphones and with technology and so much that's happening, and it's a systemic issue. It's a really systemic issue. So it's a complicated topic, right? And yeah, man, that's again.

Daniel Joseph : 39:29

When I wrote this book, I thought a lot about how I don't wanna come in with my biases and project that on everyone else. Right, this is more about being willing to have that discussion, the uncomfortable discussion, with ourselves. So I think that anything delving into minimalism and austerity is kind of where I personally lean. Stoicism is huge. It's important to me, but I understand that there's implications in stoicism that tell people like you gotta repress your emotions and that can lead to suicidality and other things or side effects to it.

Daniel Joseph : 40:01

Again, we can unpack that on another podcast, but but I would say, just going from what the military taught me is removing those things that I thought I needed. Do you know what I'm saying? And it's surprising how much you don't need certain things. It's really and it's refreshing, it's so cool because it's like trimming fat man. It's like you trim the fat out of life and you're leaner and meaner and you just you feel that there's this levity that you didn't have. So it's counterintuitive how cutting off materialistic things actually frees you up more and that's yeah, I love minimalism man.

Fitz: 40:42

It's a biggie pack on your idea. Yeah, that word scares a lot of people though. Minimalism people hear it and they think, oh, I just have to live with like a chair and a plant on a table and nothing else and it's just like. No. I've read a lot of books, starting a year ago, about minimalism and nobody would come in my house and think I'm a minimalist.

Fitz: 41:02

I got two kids, there's toys everywhere and whatever, but I've given away or gotten rid of or donated so much stuff and I'll just tell you I don't think about one thing and say I shouldn't have given that away, like I am glad for everything that's gone and I still look for more, right, because less is more. There's like just less mental head space to take up with that sort of thing. So I'm glad you brought up that topic and that counts inside your head too, right? The more you shed outwardly, the more you kind of can shed inwardly and just like live, live simpler but better, if that makes sense, totally yeah for you. You mentioned that you've learned from a lot of great military leaders. Is there a quote or a concept that you come back to as kind of the top or like the trunk of the tree, that all of your other great Pieces of advice that you've gained from these great leaders Comes right back to.

Daniel Joseph : 42:00

Yeah, I mean the biggest thing. So I gotta remember what did I write his name as I changed his name for Opsec. He's a green beret, so let me think of so Greg in the book, the character Greg. He's a friend of mine, he's a green beret officer and he gave me advice. He's actually one of the few chapters in my book that has multiple nuggets of advice, but Humility and calm were two of the biggest beliefs that he carried as a green beret.

Daniel Joseph : 42:28

And and Humility in the sense that you don't ever brag to people and tell them what you're great at. You Demonstrate it through your work ethic. You know you don't use words, you use actions right. So that was one of the more profound pieces of advice that really resonated, especially when it's hard because you'll be around people who do want to chest beat and show bone and some industries you have to man, being in sales and business development, trust me, I've from.

Daniel Joseph : 42:54

I'm from that industry and I know what it, what it looks like To have to do that to prove that you're a certain person. But there's also this kind of sweetness when you're able to do it in a way where it's not I don't know. It's just more genuine and authentic. But yes, but anyway. Humility is powerful because it's such a universal concept and truly everyone I wrote about this book, they, they demonstrate humility for sure. My editor told me to stop saying that in every chapter he's like you're saying the same thing, dude. You got to just pick one guy to be like the humility guy and like yeah.

Daniel Joseph : 43:25

Humble and then calm was super powerful. Because and again I liken this to to what I learned from the upper belt men in jujitsu Is that calm is contagious, panic is contagious and calm is contagious. And in a war zone, from from what I've heard from these guys, man, there's been some knife edge moments where things we're gonna dive into panic but then that one person steps up and tells everybody, take a breath, like we're not dead yet, you know, re-center, focus, like where's the enemy at how do we deal with this casualty? And Everyone looks up to that person like thank god you just showed up because we were about to freak out and go ballistic. You know, yeah and so yeah, I just I love that and it applies in any fight situation and there's just this level of respect you have for somebody when you see them Physiologically.

Daniel Joseph : 44:16

Take that breath again, keep that comfortable and consistent eye contact right, keep that body posture. That's just. They're present, right, they're forced to be dealt with, but they're not. They're not a being, a bully with it, you know, they're just grounded and it makes you want to center yourself. That's, that's how they make me feel and that's how I would hope I would help other soldiers feel when I work with them, it's just To be stable and have what I call. What I love is is equanimity, so being even killed in these crazy situations.

Daniel Joseph : 44:52

You know, equanimity means you just, you're just stable, you're that person that people look to so they don't lose their minds. And the few times I've been able to do that for others, it blew my mind, you know. Getting it, I would tell people like that's not, that's not normally who I am, and I would thank these mentors of mine for teaching. Yeah, you know. So, a lot of the. If there's any good that I have as a leader, good characteristics, it's very much due to them, because, yeah, I wouldn't have had that man, not the guy that I was when I was medicating and trying to escape myself you know I'm saying I needed to be taught that.

Fitz: 45:24

Humility and calm, those are the two broad strokes. It always makes me chuckle a little bit, though, dan, because you know the world of mixed martial arts and prize fighting is very much a chest beating, and you got to perform at the press conference to, like you know, ratchet your way up the ladder quicker, and it totally is opposite of why so many people love martial arts and and and the like, the art of fighting, because how it calms them mentally and how it's about discipline and respect, and there's still that that Exists when it's time to fight. But all the the circus and the show around it which makes the sport very fun to follow yeah, I mean, look at how they embrace each other after fights.

Daniel Joseph : 46:09

That's what.

Fitz: 46:09

I exactly that, Exactly dude.

Daniel Joseph : 46:11

That's the cool part, because I get it. The show biz part has to have some flair to it.

Fitz: 46:15

Yeah.

Daniel Joseph : 46:15

When you see these bloody dudes look at each other and respect each other like that, that to me is love, because love doesn't have to be a Soft thing, and I talk about this in the book man. Love can be violent, love can be explosive, and that's something that I think is so important, especially in a war fighting field, when you're with these people that are willing to lay down their life for you. If you give a directive, man, like I've seen it, dude, even in training environments, where these soldiers I tell them like hey, this has to get done. And you see them just Charlie, mike, man, they're just moving forward with it. And I'm like, hold up, bro, before you do that, like let's talk about the safety part of this. Like I got this, I got this, don't worry about it, don't worry about it.

Daniel Joseph : 46:51

And I'm looking at, I'm like, do this? Kids willing to freaking, lose an arm and a leg right now and and To not show love to someone like that is it'd be wrong to me as a leader. And again, you see fighters do that same that, that fighting mentality, bro, they will kill for that prize, but at the same time, they still have respect for each other and admiration, like that's such a cool Concept, that's, it's you. Just you don't get that out of a book. You got to live. Yeah, you know you got experience that right.

Fitz: 47:19

Yeah, and Colby Covington is kind of a lightning rod, kind of love him or hate and type of guy. It's like the mics picked him up after you know, fighting Kamara Usman again and they had nasty things to say about and he's just like hey man, you know, just just trying to get your money up. You know what I mean. Like he's promoting the fight right and he's great at that, but in the end there's there's massive respect, daniel, hopefully not the last time we talk in this format, and what I really would love some day is to be in the same zip code as you and get a Rollin on the mats.

Fitz: 47:50

Dude, come out, you don't have to ask me twice to make a trip down to San Diego one of my favorite places on on planet Earth.

Fitz: 47:58

I'll show the book again. The book is called Backpack to rucksack insight into leadership and resilience by military experts. That's written by my man here, daniel Joseph. And Daniel, just a shout out to where people can find you, your website and social channels and whatever else, as you kind of are on this mission for suicide awareness month, especially geared towards veterans in September and September 11th being recently. Just just shout out your channel so that people can do more if they want to get involved.

Daniel Joseph : 48:28

Yeah, I mean. First of all I just want to say to everybody who served and who is serving, thank you for your service and you guys are worth it. You know I steal that line from my buddy, jp Lane. He is a double amp, double amputee, lost his legs after a 200 pound IED exploded and he always tells people when they thank him for a service he says you're worth it. And I told him I was like JP, I'm gonna steal that bro, but I'll give him credit for it.

Daniel Joseph : 48:51

So do what it takes to enrich your life and be a healthier person through whatever it is You're struggling with, because we're all human, we all have struggles. You can find me on combat psychcom. So if you go to combat psych you can preview the book for the first few chapters. I'm working on the audiobook right now and I'm putting some more content up and I hope to create some discussions going on. I don't have all the answers, but there's so much wisdom to be shared the officers and the enlisted side of the house and the military. So if we put our heads together, will come up with some awesome solutions to just grow one another, and Definitely I wanted to involve anything hand-to-hand on the mats for sure.

Fitz: 49:27

Yeah, nice man. Thanks for connecting Daniel. It was great talking to you, thank you. I appreciate you having me.